fcapria:

Paddywack:

You are right. The use of shift, alt and cntrl keys when slip and slide trimming still needs to be addressed.

The conflict with the shift key and slide selections is being addressed in a future patch release.

Well I just read through the 5.0.3.7 readme and am I correct that this is not fixed in this patch?

jveekeres:

am I correct that this is not fixed in this patch?

I don't think it can be fixed without going back to the earlier arrangement, or something like it.

I've described before how I beleive the new arrangement to be illogical and no one from Avid has countered my argument; I'll be surprised if they can actually 'fix' this without creating more problems.

But the number of bug fixes in this patch gives you an idea of what's been occupying the engineers' time. Let's hope this patch will clear the decks a bit and maybe we'll see some useful problem-solving in the near future...

Yes, despite Marianna's post about Avid listening, I was not optimistic that any of the Control-key issues with slip and slide would really be resolved. Maybe the decks are now cleared, or maybe the door is now closing.

funckdren:

despite Marianna's post about Avid listening, I was not optimistic

Same here. My hopes were raised and dashed to pieces . . .What a world . .

And just when I hoped things would get better, they actually get worse with the 5.0.3.7 patch.

I'm certain I use Option-copy-to-clipboard nearly as often as I use Control-key to lasso.

http://community.avid.com/forums/p/92370/525178.aspx#525178

funckdren:

they actually get worse with the 5.0.3.7 patch.

AndrewAction:

Dont update then.

Don't worry, I'm not and don't plan to anytime soon. Since I began this thread, I tried out MC5 for 30 days and went straight back to MC4. I also convinced the production company I currently work for to keep their 50 Avid workstations firmly on MC4.

However, I would like to think that I will, at some point in the future, feel confident about upgrading with Avid again. (Like I used to.)

The other day, I realized something about this CTRL key thing that I hadn't before, as I installed a trial of MC4 on a notebook to do some demos.

At the moment I didn't have a mouse with me (which would have had a second button), so I tried CTRL-clicking (default substitute for secondary click on an Apple notebook) in the Bin window to get a popup menu in order to import a clip. It didn't work. The CTRL-key-as-lasso-key is active in ALL windows, not just the timeline. AMAZING! How stupid!

And so I suddenly realized something, after all these months, about why they felt they needed to change it, and in the same moment I couldn't believe what a short sighted solution this was. The CTRL key modifier in MC4 and earlier had prevented access to context-menus throughout the application, so instead of modifying this behaviour (to be active in the timeline only, for example, which would have been reasonable), or showing users another method to get secondary click on a macbook trackpad (using two-finger-click: see the Trackpad panel in System Preferences, which is what I then did), they completely changed it in MC5 to another key and created a convoluted self-conflicting interface function that screwed up everyone's workflow! They made a drastic global change to the functionality of the program because they were too lazy to think the problem through or to educate anyone! And only for the sake of users who are on an Apple notebook with no mouse! How many of these can there be??

Anyway just wanted to share this revelation, that the whole thing which I have already written volumes about, and which started this thread, was even dumber than I had thought. Hope you are all well.

I think it's clear now that we are unfortunately stuck with this Control-key change -- a big bummer for me as it affects four MC techniques I use hundreds of times a day: lasso segments inside timeline, enter slip & slide via lasso inside timeline, resrict vertical movement in segment mode.

It's the main reason I resisted upgrading to MC5. But I now have taken a job where I need to use MC5, and I think I stumbled on something that works for me.

Looking at the keyboard shortcuts list for MC5, I noticed that the Control-key has essentially been removed altogether. It is now basically reserved for contextual menus only. I don't really care that much about accessing contextual menus with the Control-key (I can always right-click on the mouse for Pete's sake) so here's my imperfect solution:

In my Mac System Prefs I changed my modifier key setup so that when I tap Control, my Mac taps Option. Now I can lasso segments freely in the timeline and get into slip mode easily with just the Control key, just like MC4. Sliding is now Control-Shift (pretty easy to retrain my muscles from Control-Option). The only function that this fix doesn't affect is restrict vertical movement in segment mode. 

For what it's worth...

My favorite forum topic ever! Well funckdren, that's fairly radical. Doesn't that upset a lot of other functions? How about the old command-option to snap to the tail of a clip for example?

I feel your pain. I am still resisting v5...

but maybe they'll announce version 6 and 6.5 at NAB LOL

LMN

lunelson:

Doesn't that upset a lot of other functions? How about the old command-option to snap to the tail of a clip for example?

No, it doesn't upset Command-Option snap at all. Just to be clear -- in the Mac OS you can decide how you want the Shift, Command, Option, and Control keys to function. All I've done is changed the Control-key to function like the Option-key. I have not changed the Shift, Command, or Option keys -- they still function as normal. So essentially I now just have two Option-keys.

I only tried it because it's actually not that radical. Looking through the list of keyboard shortcuts for MC5, it only affects four shortcuts that still utilize Control-key:

1. Control-Shift for Relink/Unlink
2. Control-double click Title to edit in Title tool
3. Control-play in to out for continuous loop
4. Control-drag single side trim to add filler

I don't really want any of these shortcuts as much as I want to lasso within the timeline the same way I've been doing it for 13 years. Will let you know if I come across any glitches.

funckdren:

Looking through the list of keyboard shortcuts for MC5, it only affects four shortcuts that still utilize Control-key:

1. Control-Shift for Relink/Unlink
2. Control-double click Title to edit in Title tool
3. Control-play in to out for continuous loop
4. Control-drag single side trim to add filler

I have my Mac keyboard setup per OS defaults and I'm not getting the Unlink command when hitting Control+Shift, all I see is "Relink" and it never toggles.  

To edit a Title, I have to Option+double-click

Control+Play In to Out still works.

and I have to Option+drag single side Trim to Add Filler (which is the same as enabling the Red Trim tool in SmartTool).  Hitting Control brings up a right-click context menu.

So, it appears that the only keyboard shortcut that works as documented is Control+Play In to Out.  

This is on v5.0.3.5 MacPro

Yes, I noticed too that Control-Shift had no effect on Unlink / Relink.

I got the MC5 keyboard shortcut list from a post by Larry in this thread:
http://community.avid.com/forums/t/85300.aspx

I believe the pdf is an Avid document, but I also noticed a mistake or two. It still indicated, for example, that restricting vertical in segment mode is done with Control-key. It's now Shift-Option.

One other keyboard shortcut that changing Control to Option at the OS level would affect is this:
Control-V or B: edit to position indicator rather than In or Out points

Brian:

That pdf attachment is probably out of date now. Is it correct in Hershleder's link? If not, I'll get in touch with him to get it updated.

Thanks, Larry. Ben's list is definitely more up to date. Will have to take a closer look at his site to consider the ripple effects from changing Control to Option at the OS level. A quick glance still indicates it's not that significant...