Well I hope we'll see a response from Avid too. For now I feel I've said enough on this thread; it hardly seems worth going through the rest of the laundry list of small bugs and glitches in MC5 in addition the points we've already brought up, since they deserve attention first.

For now I've gone back to MC4, which has shown me how stressed I was after two weeks on MC5. Everything is faster, more stable, more efficient. 

It's the downgrade that feels like an upgrade!

LOL

I’m the designer who signed off on these changes to the Media Composer UI. Several of you know me personally and professionally. For over a decade I worked as an editor in primetime television. Avid has built a design team of equal parts professional editor and user interface engineers.

Media Composer 5 had the largest pool of beta testers Avid has ever engaged in a release. The response to the Smart Tools palette and the keyboard modifications was overwhelmingly positive. It was not unanimous. We understand that experienced editors don’t want to relearn core application functionality when they upgrade their tools. The set of features we added were designed to make mouse-based editors and those switching from competing applications more efficient quickly.

We also specifically designed the new timeline interactions to be easily switched off (and left off) so that experienced editors would continue to have the exact same functionality they had previously. If and when they want to learn the new tools, they can switch them on – allowing them to learn new functions at their own pace.

For what it’s worth, my Smart Tools settings leave Segment Extract/Splice In and Overwrite Trim off. I just don’t use them. I suggest trying those settings to get started with Smart Tools.

There is one significant exception to our goal of preserving legacy behavior, and that is the set of changes we made to modifier key behavior. For years, Media Composer on Windows and Media Composer on Mac have used different modifier key combinations to trigger the same commands. That needed to change. Most notably, our Mac version made use of the control key in non-standard ways.

We also took the time to fix the selection model within bins – control and shift now behave as they do in Mac OS X and Windows 7 when the editor selects multiple clips.

The challenge we faced with the modifier key behavior was whether we leave it non-standard and force every new user to adapt to our outdated approach, or fix the behavior and cause our existing users to adjust. We left that decision to our alpha and beta testers. Though many didn’t initially like the change, a significant majority did.

We had many iterations of development of the timeline functionality. We’re confident we arrived at a set of features and an interaction design that are a significant improvement for many editors.

We’re not done. We’ll continue iterating, and we always welcome new beta testers. 

Frank,

Thank you for dropping in and letting us all know about the situation and the background to it.

Direct input from Avid is always welcome.

Regards,
Douglas

Hi Frank,

Perhaps I don't understand this exactly, but you mention that you designed the new SmartTools so that they could be disabled (thus allowing seasoned Avid users to continue to edit as always). From what I gather from this thread and others over in the PC forum, either we don't understand how to turn-off smart tools or else something is broken - the general concensus is that the SmartTools appear to re-enable themselves. Is there a way to truly use the MC 5 timeline in a pre-MC 5 workflow?

Thanks,

BarkinMadd:

the general concensus is that the SmartTools appear to re-enable themselves. Is there a way to truly use the MC 5 timeline in a pre-MC 5 workflow?

You beat me to it, Steve.

That was going to be my next post!

I have been unable to completely disable the Smart Tool by using the obvious methods (including switching off in the settings).

BUT there is one thing I have not yet tried. Until I do that, later today, I cannot be 100% sure that I cannot turn off the Smart Tool completely.
I have not created a new user in MC5. I'll try that and see if there is any change in how the turning off reacts.

Regards,
Douglas

Frank,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply -- I appreciate hearing some of the rationale behind these big decisions, and I understand some of your reasoning. But you have to admit, sacrificing the keyboard techniques of your experienced users to, as you've described it, attract 'mouse-based editors and those switching from competing applications' is huge. Surely your team expected some type of mutiny.

I guess I take issue less with the mouse-based Smart Tool than I do with the decision to overhaul modifier key behavior (the source of this thread), which you also recognize as distinctly "significant" in this new release. Why did the control-key function really 'need to change'?  When I hit the control-key, I never think about how it functiones in Mac or PC or both. Editing with Media Composer is so much deeper than the platform -- it's the tools you gave many of us years ago to start a career. This is more than just "legacy behavior" -- these are the editors who helped put Avid on the map. And, specifically, one of the tools I adopted early -- control-lassoing to enter slide mode -- is GONE. That's like removing a screwdriver in my book.

We could obviously go 'round and 'round about whether or not this was a good decision for the future health of Avid, etc. What I continue to wonder is if it's possible to please everyone. Is there any conceivable way to make modifier key behavior customizable?  It seems within reach somehow, some way, even if it requires optionally dismantling most of the new features in the MC5 Timeline interface. I think many of us "legacy" editors would at least like the option for a true classic mode that includes original modifier key behavior. Then we all can go about our business and continue telling good stories with a great and tested set of editing tools.

Thanks.

Frank:

I would also like to thank you for responding and to reinforce funckdren's request, which I also made earlier - to have an additional timeline setting for an "enhanced mode" with all the new timeline features and smart tools, and a "classic mode" where the timeline behaves exactly as it did prior to MC 5. You could put this entire issue to rest and achieve synergy with the legacy craft editors as well as the newcomers by doing so. A win-win for everyone.

Hey Frank,

Long time no see.  I also want to echo the other statements thanking you for popping in here and shedding some light on the decisions made.  As you know, I all but bleed purple so I want you to know that I do appreciate advancements in the software and its ability to maximize my creativity while minimizing things that shouldn't get in the way of my process.

A couple things: 

fcapria:

The set of features we added were designed to make mouse-based editors and those switching from competing applications more efficient quickly.

I understand wanting to entice those from competitors to see the light and make a seamless switch to MC, but I do wonder why such credence is given to those with mouse-based tendencies when one of MC's strenghts is and always has been its keyboard versatility.  Seems to me like making this move will not get those mouse-based users to come into the fold and embrace the keyboard anymore than re-printing the works of Shakespeare in TXT-ese will encourage high school students to appreciate literature.  ("Hrk wt lite thru yndr wndw brks" or "2B or nt 2B tht iz de q")

fcapria:

For years, Media Composer on Windows and Media Composer on Mac have used different modifier key combinations to trigger the same commands. That needed to change. Most notably, our Mac version made use of the control key in non-standard ways.

Having the Bin selections be uniform to the OS is a big thing and I'm glad it's finally here, but being that Macs have the Control button (and PCs don't have anything equivalent), I'm confused as to why any functionality had to be removed or changed or done away with for that key?  What does Control do for us in v5 now? 

In the end it does not matter to me if the Control functions have been moved to Option (I will adjust my fingers - likely resulting in more hand cramps and early carpal tunnel syndrome), but what does concern me is that many functions that I used to perform with Control did not carry over and are not present using Option.  Can you clarify that holding Option will perform all of the same functions that Control did? in the same manner that Control did?  Including lassoing to enter Segment/Trim modes etc? 

fcapria:

We’re not done. We’ll continue iterating

Also, last request - can you iterate back in the ability to change your Project Window and Bin background colors?  I like to have my Project Window bright yellow so that I can see it peeking out from behind when I have a bunch of bins open. 

Thanks again for stopping in and I hope we'll see you soon at a Boston Avid Users Group meeting.

 

 

 

fcapria:

We understand that experienced editors don’t want to relearn core application functionality when they upgrade their tools.

But do you understand that none of us mind learning new core application functionality IF THERE IS A BENEFIT.

With no benefit to established workflows in the "new" tool why would any intelligent person WANT to retrain themselves when the smart tool is slower and much less precise in most cases.

Also consider the increditable disservice you have done to any multi seat establishment. Most of these, IMO will upgrade over a period of time. So we end up with combinations of legacy versions and Unsmart versions.  Staff and freelance editors constantly back and forth between MC5 and MC4 or earlier.  Resulting in all editors being less productive.

fcapria:

We also specifically designed the new timeline interactions to be easily switched off (and left off) so that experienced editors would continue to have the exact same functionality they had previously.

If this is the true please explain how I can 1 key stroke KB switch from overwrite segment to insert segment mode? Or one keystroke quit segment mode? 2 key strokes to slide?

fcapria:

If and when they want to learn the new tools, they can switch them on – allowing them to learn new functions at their own pace.

Sorry this is just downright insulting. WHAT new functions?????? does the smart tool offer. In this editors view it just messes with the long established functions forcing us to spend all day looking at the timeline (to see what pretty red or yellow icon is smiling back at us) instead of being able to watch the edits we are crafting because we KNOW the tool we are using by the keystroke we typed.

 

 

AndrewAction:

In this editors view it just messes with the long established functions forcing us to spend all day looking at the timeline (to see what pretty red or yellow icon is smiling back at us) instead of being able to watch the edits we are crafting because we KNOW the tool we are using by the keystroke we typed.

I agree, and add to that the fact that to use the smart tool effectively without the changing icons driving you absolutely crazy, you must expand the vertical height of EVERY TRACK to a size I am very uncomfortable with. With an average of 8 layers or video and 8 to 10 layers of audio in our product timelines, I can no longer see my entire stack at a glance as I prefer to do. These are the kinds of unexpected "side effects" that we just cannot tolerate.

Frank, again, I say if you were to sit down and work with these new tools in a pressure cooker, race the clock environment and experience first hand what a negative affect this has on workflow and momentum, maybe you would then appreciate and take to heart the criticism we are giving you. And I truly believe that you will not come to that realization until you do.

 

I know there's an issue where the Smart Tool occasionally enables itself, but once that gets fixed, doesn't the overall issue of the Smart Tool go away?  In other words, if the editor has the option of turning off the Smart Tool forever, I would think everyone would be happy, no?

ciao,
Carl

p.s. I'm not talking about the option/control key issue; I can see both sides of that one.  I agree with Frank that it needed to be standardized, and I can see why that would annoy people.  Because I don't think it should've remained different on Mac & PC, I don't think there's a better answer than what they've done.

camoscato:

if the editor has the option of turning off the Smart Tool forever, I would think everyone would be happy, no?

 

One more thing would be one the option to switch from yellow to red segment mode with one key, not enable red and disable yellow. Perhaps that could also be like in pre 5 versions...

Hello editors,

I'm also one of the product designers at Avid responsible for Smart Tools as well as the mod key changes.  I want to chime in and add to Frank's comments and give some more background.

The MC interface has long been designed around the keyboard user.  This is a good thing.  Many of our long time editors turn off much of the interface and edit with the keyboard which gives them a lot of speed.  Where the interface fell short, though, is adding some of the same efficiencies for our users who either predominantly use the mouse or for those who heavily combine the two (many of us).  MC has long been very modal and not friendly to modern interaction styles used to directly manipulating software.  We all know that the creative app world is much more mouse-based, direct manipulation oriented, than it was when MC launched 21 years ago.  It's time that MC pay more attention to the mouse-based users.

That said, we had (still have) the task of integrating more mouse-based interaction models while keeping long time interaction models intact.  Our alpha and beta users helped us a great deal with honing this balance.  We brought in scores of users across the spectrum of workflows and experience levels to get this right.  The final design of MC5 is a function of what these many users told us through many cycles of research and testing.  As Frank said, we're continuing to refine the interface and listen to what our editors are tell us about how to make them more efficient.

Remember that while we work hard to keep long time users efficient we have to be sure that our application is in line with current interaction models which will allow new users and crossover users from other products adopt MC more easily.  We all want MC around for many years to come.

As for turning off Smart Tools, the easiest way is to press the Smart Tools toggle button that wraps around the Smart Tools.  In usability testing I've noticed that the editors who map the Smart Tool Toggle to an easily reachable key on the keyboard are able to very quickly pop in and out of the Smart Tools giving them the best of both worlds.

Regarding the Smart Tools staying off, the only actions that make a Smart Tool automatically enable is selecting a segment (lassoing or using select left/right) when no segment tool is enabled.  Remember, this is the way prior releases worked as well.  This is because the editor needs to know which of the two operations are in effect when any interaction with the selected segment occurs.  Also pasting a segment in will enable the segment tool if neither is on.  The general rule is the last used segment tool configuration (insert, overwrite or both) is re-established. Users like this approach because they're often using one configuration until they move on to another phase of the edit and don't want to continually reset the configuration.  If there is no prior config (neither tool was explicitly selected), then the user-defined (new to ver. 5) segment default segment mode is used.  This approach gives users the most flexibility to combine interaction styles.

When Smart Tools are off MC is very close to pre 5 interface.  If you "U" key or lasso into trim mode with all Smart Tools off MC behaves in a classic manner with the exception of the new dual roller zone in the edit.

Regarding the mod key changes, there were a few driving factors here.  Not only did MC not conform to the platform standard but MC was sometimes inconsistent with itself in which mod key was used for common operations (ie. the mod key used to range select should be the same in all windows in the application).  Conforming to the platform standard is not only best practice in software design for any application but it helps new users and crossover users adopt the interface more quickly.  New users/crossover users got very confused by MC's non-standard use of mod key mapping.  We know that we're asking our long time users to undergo a bit of relearning but the new mod key mapping should be easier to learn since it's what users are used to in other applications.  General rule: if an operation uses alt on the PC, it'll use option on the Mac.  If and operation uses control on the PC, it uses command on the Mac.

Hope this helps to explain why we're making some of these changes.  Thanks for coming along with us as we make the product easier to use for all of our users.  Please keep the input coming.

Michael Marcinelli

camoscato:

...the option/control key issue; I can see both sides of that one.  I agree with Frank that it needed to be standardize

 

Excuse me but this argument for "standards" with respect to the control key assignment is nonsense.

 

1. There is no "standard" use for the control key on the Mac. There is a default use --which is for context-menu clicks -- but that is not the same thing as a "standard" or required function in the OS. It is required only in situations where the user is using a one-button mouse or other single-click input (notably no shipping mac desktops or notebooks in the last several years have this restriction), and it may be an obligation for applications which rely on Mac OS UI structures, but Media Composer is certainly not one of those (windows, dialogs and scrollbars are completely non-standard) -- so why choose to make an issue on this point?

 

2. There is also no such thing as a "standard" or normal modifier key for invoking a lasso cursor, and the lasso that we use in MC is a unique functionality. There is no typical or "normal" example that you can point to elsewhere as a UI standard. MC's lasso functionality also happens to have been considerably more sophisticated in its usage than tools in those "mouse-based editors" (in FCP, there are two different tools required to perform the equivalent functions).

 

3. The OPTION key does have a convention to its usage: it (logically) invokes the "optional" or alternate version of whatever action you are applying. This applies to drag selections, buttons clicks, menu picks, dialog buttons and the rest -- and Media Composer uses it appropriately in several contexts. Now importantly, and this pertains to how this thread got started: MC *used* to allow the OPTION key IN COMBINATION WITH THE CONTROL KEY to invoke optional lassoing of trims (slide instead of slip), which was logical, and which gave a depth of functionality that was one of the hallmarks of MC's efficiency, and which I guarantee you was a function that the users on this forum used EVERY SINGLE DAY. But now you have destroyed that, due to your assignment of the lasso key to its own option-modifier (the option-key itself), resulting in a stupidly crippled lasso functionality. This requires us not only to deal with a new key-press (which alone would be merely annoying); but to actually adapt a new work style to work around this disablity.

 

Finally, the smart tool issue: it comes down to segment mode. You cannot combine yellow and red segment mode in to ONE TOOL which changes function based on where you hold the mouse. The smart tool has its place; but you need to also allow editors to directly select the segment tool they want and to have one be disabled when the other is selected. This is so obvious I can't believe I have to spell it out.

 

Oh and P.S.: where exactly on your development priority list were the hundreds of other features that edtors actually ASKED FOR YEARS AGO, and which many of those "mouse-based editors" have already been able to do all this time? (If you want a list, just ask, you'll get a piece from everyone here)

lunelson:

MC *used* to allow the OPTION key IN COMBINATION WITH THE CONTROL KEY to invoke optional lassoing of trims (slide instead of slip), which was logical, and which gave a depth of functionality that was one of the hallmarks of MC's efficiency, and which I guarantee you was a function that the users on this forum used EVERY SINGLE DAY. But now you have destroyed that, due to your assignment of the lasso key to its own option-modifier (the option-key itself), resulting in a stupidly crippled lasso functionality.

God bless lunelson for a razor-sharp assessment of why this is a problem. Yes, this was a function I used a hundred times a day, and I think most will now agree it needs to be addressed. We're not simply resisiting change or trying to close the door on mouse-users.