Latest post Sat, Jan 16 2021 1:32 PM by Miguel. 53 replies.
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  • Wed, Aug 5 2020 2:14 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: ARM vs Intel: Which Macintosh to Buy?

    Piers

    it wont be that quick.... big changes at the AWWDC that have a lot of planning and development in play and in flux.  We will communicate as soon as we know..... 

    Marianna

    Director of CSM | Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Aug 5 2020 2:23 PM In reply to

    • jcmcnamee
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Brooklyn, NY
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    Re: ARM vs Intel: Which Macintosh to Buy?

    I feel like we're not going to have to worry about having edit-ready Arm macs this year. Signs seem to be pointing to Apple releasing the Arm computers from the bottom up...like a replacement for the 21" imac (the rumored 24" iMac) and a Macbook air-type laptop in the fall. Maybe bringing the tiny Macbook back from the dead. MAYBE the mac mini.

    But I think the pro computer transition will be next year. With the newly bumped specs in the intel 27" iMac (making it more iMac pro-like) it's probably going to stick around for a bit till they're ready for the Arm version of that one. Mac Pro will probably be the last to change over (within the "two-year" goal apple stated.

    This is my speculation based on all the rumors I've read and many tech podcasts I listen to so I don't have a source to point to.

    Media Composer 2021.9 / OS 11.6.1 27" iMac 5K 2017 [4.2 GHz Intel Core i7, 64 GB ram, Radeon Pro 580 8 GB] [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Aug 6 2020 2:24 PM In reply to

    • Miguel
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    • Joined on Thu, Nov 1 2012
    • Braga, Portugal
    • Posts 87
    • Points 965

    Re: ARM vs Intel: Which Macintosh to Buy?

    Job ter Burg:

    They tried that once, to ditch the Mac version

    I wasn't aware of that.
    When was that? I'm curious… 

    Job ter Burg:
    That said, I've been using both.

    That's the setup I work with, right now.

    Job ter Burg:
    For a while, the PC versions seemed more stable to me. For the last couple of years, stability seems comparable. But the Mac version of MC feels a little more responsive to me.

    My experience is the opposite: Mac versions are more stable.
    Overall, the Mac experience is more seamless, both in MC and PT; you don't have to worry about having another application open (except one of these two), using your sound card, install ASIO drivers if you don't have an interface… and less buggier - in Windows I really have to whatch out for disc permissions and access, when exporting... 

    Job ter Burg:
    Granted, I'm comparing apples and oranges, as I'm using a Late 2013 iMac, a 2018 MBPro, a dual hex z800 and a dual 10c z840.

    Indeed you are… because they are.
    I use a late 2012 iMac i7 4 core and a 2017 Xeon 6 core HP Z440…
    Guess what? I can do background rendering and transcoding on the iMac, not in the HP. This is just an exmaple.
    As stated in AMC's System Recommendations for Feature Performance, to perform these operations will need a "Qualified PC Dual 6 Core or higher", or a "Qualified Mac Pro 6 core or higher, 12 core with Hyperthreading", i.e. twice de CPU power on Windows based workstations.

    So, when someone mentions the higher price tag of Mac workstations, it may be true in raw specs, but the real world performance is much different, requiring a much more packed Windows Workstation. 

    Job ter Burg:
    More importantly is the question if Apple is going to ditch Avid and us. Apple have a history of dropping 'our' market segment. First when they stopped making 6-slot machines, the by dropping the Mac Pro, then by neglecting the Trashcan Mac Pro. 

    As Avid, I'm sure Apple's is not interested in loosing their clients and worse… their name.
    As you said, they began to have a "history".

    Hopefully, they learnt with the mistakes they themselves admited. Only time will tell.
    Meanwhile, they have reinforced their offer in past year.

    Let us benefit from it.

    MC 8.8.5 | PT 11.3.1 | MacOS 10.12.6| iMac 21,5" - i7 - 3,1 GHz - 16 GB RAM - nVidia 650M 512 MB | Caldigit AV Drive 1 TB. [view my complete system specs]

    Miguel

     

    Media Composer editor, since 1997.

  • Thu, Aug 6 2020 2:58 PM In reply to

    • Miguel
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Nov 1 2012
    • Braga, Portugal
    • Posts 87
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    Re: ARM vs Intel: Which Macintosh to Buy?

    Marianna:

    No plans to ditch but we are working through the new technology and have yet to determine and announce anything yet.

    I know that as soon as we know on the mC side, we will communicate that info.

    Great news, Marianna!
    I really didn't want to be forced to work exclusively on Windows. In fact, I'll get back to macOS entirely as soon I can. I can't wait.

    Marianna:

    it wont be that quick.... big changes at the WWDC that have a lot of planning and development in play and in flux.  We will communicate as soon as we know..... 

    I imangine it won't be.
    I'll wait (im)paciently. Wink

    MC 8.8.5 | PT 11.3.1 | MacOS 10.12.6| iMac 21,5" - i7 - 3,1 GHz - 16 GB RAM - nVidia 650M 512 MB | Caldigit AV Drive 1 TB. [view my complete system specs]

    Miguel

     

    Media Composer editor, since 1997.

  • Thu, Aug 6 2020 3:17 PM In reply to

    Re: ARM vs Intel: Which Macintosh to Buy?

    Miguel:

    Job ter Burg:

    They tried that once, to ditch the Mac version

    I wasn't aware of that.
    When was that? I'm curious… 

    Job ter Burg:
    That said, I've been using both.

    That's the setup I work with, right now.

    Job ter Burg:
    For a while, the PC versions seemed more stable to me. For the last couple of years, stability seems comparable. But the Mac version of MC feels a little more responsive to me.

    My experience is the opposite: Mac versions are more stable.
    Overall, the Mac experience is more seamless, both in MC and PT; you don't have to worry about having another application open (except one of these two), using your sound card, install ASIO drivers if you don't have an interface… and less buggier - in Windows I really have to whatch out for disc permissions and access, when exporting... 

    Job ter Burg:
    Granted, I'm comparing apples and oranges, as I'm using a Late 2013 iMac, a 2018 MBPro, a dual hex z800 and a dual 10c z840.

    Indeed you are… because they are.
    I use a late 2012 iMac i7 4 core and a 2017 Xeon 6 core HP Z440…
    Guess what? I can do background rendering and transcoding on the iMac, not in the HP. This is just an exmaple.
    As stated in AMC's System Recommendations for Feature Performance, to perform these operations will need a "Qualified PC Dual 6 Core or higher", or a "Qualified Mac Pro 6 core or higher, 12 core with Hyperthreading", i.e. twice de CPU power on Windows based workstations.

    So, when someone mentions the higher price tag of Mac workstations, it may be true in raw specs, but the real world performance is much different, requiring a much more packed Windows Workstation. 

    Job ter Burg:
    More importantly is the question if Apple is going to ditch Avid and us. Apple have a history of dropping 'our' market segment. First when they stopped making 6-slot machines, the by dropping the Mac Pro, then by neglecting the Trashcan Mac Pro. 

    As Avid, I'm sure Apple's is not interested in loosing their clients and worse… their name.
    As you said, they began to have a "history".

    Hopefully, they learnt with the mistakes they themselves admited. Only time will tell.
    Meanwhile, they have reinforced their offer in past year.

    Let us benefit from it.

    I can do background transcoding and rendering on all my PC systems and the best is a quad core i7.

    I work across Mac and PC and gnerally I find the PC side to be more stable and seemless. bUt I suspect thats just based on having started on PC.

    But theres no point is a pC Mac war. The issue goin forward maybe supporting Intel Macs and ARM Macs as well as PC's

    And yes I remember the annoucement to drop Apple support have a batch of Apple systems that wouldn't suppor the MC baord set and the faff of expansion crates.

    HP Z840 3.1GHZ 20cores 128GB RAM M4000 GPU 1TB NVMe drive HP Z book 17 G2 2.7GHZ Quad core 32GB RAM Nvidia K3100M 1TB SSD drive ACI Moderator. I'm... [view my complete system specs]

     

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  • Thu, Aug 6 2020 5:15 PM In reply to

    Re: ARM vs Intel: Which Macintosh to Buy?

     

    Miguel:

    I wasn't aware of that.

    When was that? I'm curious…


    NAB 1999 if I'm not mistaken. http://independent-magazine.org/1999/07/avid-leaves-mac-cutting-room-floor/
    It had a lot to do with Apple's decision to stop making 6-slot machines, which Avid needed to place their various video and audio boards. 
    Avid walked it back quicky after that but after ABVB Avids which ran on PowerPC, they went for their new Meridien hardware, which debuted on the PC-only Symphony. For quite some time, no Mac Meridien MC was available. Then, one was but without 24p/film options and without the Uncompressed video option. Then for a couple of years, the Mac versions were quite less stable than PC versions. In part this was due to the need for external PCI crates to compensate the lack of slots in the Macs.

     My experience is the opposite: Mac versions are more stable.

    I wrote: were. Not anymore. I don't see any stability difference today. 

    But: History has so far shown that Apple does very little for our industry. Lip service isn't worth much. I'm happy with their new verbal commitment but that does not change their records. They have left countless of Mac Pro users out in the cold for a long, long time. The move to ARM so soon after releasing the New New Mac Pro doesn't make me run out to order one. And I own many Apple products and love the OS.

    Oh and where is all the functionality from QT7 in QT X? Where is native DNxHD support for OSX? Why wasn't that ready for Mojave, let alone Catalina?

    I love the Mac. I hate how Apple has been treating our industry, though, and I can't help being baffled by the amount of credit Apple still has with us. I don't think it is objectively justified.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Sep 9 2020 1:09 PM In reply to

    • Miguel
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Nov 1 2012
    • Braga, Portugal
    • Posts 87
    • Points 965

    Re: ARM vs Intel: Which Macintosh to Buy?

    Pat Horridge:

    I can do background transcoding and rendering on all my PC systems and the best is a quad core i7.

    Funny!…

    My HP Z440 workstation always crashed while doing background operations, such as transcoding and rendering... Sad

    I've just formated it and… it works! Big Smile

    Thanks Pat! Yes

    MC 8.8.5 | PT 11.3.1 | MacOS 10.12.6| iMac 21,5" - i7 - 3,1 GHz - 16 GB RAM - nVidia 650M 512 MB | Caldigit AV Drive 1 TB. [view my complete system specs]

    Miguel

     

    Media Composer editor, since 1997.

  • Tue, Oct 27 2020 11:23 AM In reply to

    • Miguel
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    • Joined on Thu, Nov 1 2012
    • Braga, Portugal
    • Posts 87
    • Points 965

    Re: ARM vs Intel: Which Macintosh to Buy?

    MC 8.8.5 | PT 11.3.1 | MacOS 10.12.6| iMac 21,5" - i7 - 3,1 GHz - 16 GB RAM - nVidia 650M 512 MB | Caldigit AV Drive 1 TB. [view my complete system specs]

    Miguel

     

    Media Composer editor, since 1997.

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  • Tue, Oct 27 2020 12:15 PM In reply to

    Re: ARM vs Intel: Which Macintosh to Buy?

    Miguel:

    We should seen them in November so that will be helpful.

    I guess initially they will just be a different platform not compatible with MC until such time as Avid ports the code across.

    I'm sticking with PC and much less complicated life :-)

    HP Z840 3.1GHZ 20cores 128GB RAM M4000 GPU 1TB NVMe drive HP Z book 17 G2 2.7GHZ Quad core 32GB RAM Nvidia K3100M 1TB SSD drive ACI Moderator. I'm... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hosted Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | www.vet-training.co.uk|

     

  • Tue, Oct 27 2020 12:41 PM In reply to

    • Miguel
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    • Joined on Thu, Nov 1 2012
    • Braga, Portugal
    • Posts 87
    • Points 965

    Re: ARM vs Intel: Which Macintosh to Buy?

    Pat Horridge:

    We should seen them in November so that will be helpful.

    Probably in November 17.

    Pat Horridge:

    I guess initially they will just be a different platform not compatible with MC until such time as Avid ports the code across.

    I guess so…
    It'll be up to Marianna to say when…  Wink

    Pat Horridge:

    I'm sticking with PC and much less complicated life :-)

    I'll wait for the ARM version of MC Big Smile

    MC 8.8.5 | PT 11.3.1 | MacOS 10.12.6| iMac 21,5" - i7 - 3,1 GHz - 16 GB RAM - nVidia 650M 512 MB | Caldigit AV Drive 1 TB. [view my complete system specs]

    Miguel

     

    Media Composer editor, since 1997.

    Filed under: , , ,
  • Thu, Oct 29 2020 9:56 PM In reply to

    Re: ARM vs Intel: Which Macintosh to Buy?

    My hope is that Avid supports Mojave forever. 

    The recent releases of MacOS have made doing clean installs more and more difficult due to the increased security nagging and the "this format won't be supported in the future" nagging. I recently did a fresh install of Pro Tools on Mojave alongside over 200 plugins and VI's. I can't tell you how many times I had to enter my login info and unclick the lock in the security preference pane. It took days.

    The new MacOs's are taking things even further with increased sandboxing alongside a crusade to rid the world of 32-bit code forcing us all to suffer through code migrations and find replacements for handy apps and codecs that do not need to be 64-bit. Since the new cheesegrater requires Catalina, I plan on running my iMac Pro until it dies and lock down on Mojave- the last safe MacOS.

    While the Apple silicon is definitely coming, I suspect that they will start with the entry level stuff like Macbooks and the Pro stuff will be the last things that are replaced. It could be years before we get a hint of a Pro mac with Apple silicon. Hopefully by then all the software will be transitioned over. Per the keynote, updating the code is as easy as a button click, right?:) 

    Anyhow, I am very happy with Mojave/Media Composer 2020.5 and hope support for Mojave continues into the future.

    -Robert

    System 1: 2018 Imac Pro 2.5 Ghz Intel Xeon W 14-core Radeon Pro Vega 64 16GB VRAM 64GB System RAM System 2:Late 2014 5K IMAC 4 GHz Intel Core i7... [view my complete system specs]
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  • Wed, Nov 11 2020 5:02 PM In reply to

    • Miguel
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Nov 1 2012
    • Braga, Portugal
    • Posts 87
    • Points 965

    Re: ARM vs Intel: Which Macintosh to Buy?

    MC 8.8.5 | PT 11.3.1 | MacOS 10.12.6| iMac 21,5" - i7 - 3,1 GHz - 16 GB RAM - nVidia 650M 512 MB | Caldigit AV Drive 1 TB. [view my complete system specs]

    Miguel

     

    Media Composer editor, since 1997.

  • Wed, Nov 11 2020 5:48 PM In reply to

    • jray
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    • Joined on Tue, Mar 1 2011
    • Posts 67
    • Points 795

    Re: ARM vs Intel: Which Macintosh to Buy?

    It'll be interesting to see how they review. None of them are configurable with more than 16GB of RAM, so not very "Pro" at the moment. 

    Avid MC 02.2021, MacBook Pro 2019 - 8 Core i9 - Radeon Pro 5500m - 64GB RAM, OS 10.15.4 [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Nov 11 2020 6:20 PM In reply to

    Re: ARM vs Intel: Which Macintosh to Buy?

    jray:

    It'll be interesting to see how they review. None of them are configurable with more than 16GB of RAM, so not very "Pro" at the moment. 

    Yes the current chips are limited to 16GB so it will need to be the next generation of ARM chip for the pro products. 

    HP Z840 3.1GHZ 20cores 128GB RAM M4000 GPU 1TB NVMe drive HP Z book 17 G2 2.7GHZ Quad core 32GB RAM Nvidia K3100M 1TB SSD drive ACI Moderator. I'm... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hosted Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | www.vet-training.co.uk|

     

  • Thu, Nov 19 2020 12:13 PM In reply to

    • n3bur
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    • Joined on Wed, Jun 3 2015
    • Brussels
    • Posts 37
    • Points 475

    Re: ARM vs Intel: Which Macintosh to Buy?

    But then again, the Unified memory architecture makes for a way more efficient usage of RAM. I bet 16GB would suffice for your day to day editing. And I bet the integrated gpu will do just fine. Certainly when MC will be optimized. 

    So come on guys, who couldn't wait and has bought the new Mac Mini and is running MC on an unsupported OS and an unsupported cpu architecture? Big Smile

    2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz i7, 32GB Ram, Radeon Pro 5500XT. Blackmagic Design Mini Monitor. Flanders Scientific AM250. Catalina 10.15.7. MC 2020.10.0 [view my complete system specs]
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