Latest post Sat, Jun 27 2020 3:13 PM by Mercer. 19 replies.
Page 1 of 2 (20 items) 1 2 Next >
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • Wed, May 20 2020 12:36 PM

    Do I need a (Avid Artist) I/O?

    I am currently building my first editing suite at home.

    At the moment I am having 2x normal monitors for timeline and bins and an EIZO CG279x as colour accurate preview monitor.

    For sound I got two Genelec monitors set up.

    I know that a professional post house is most likely to use a video interface like the Avid Artist I/O to connect the computer monitors and other devices using SDI cables etc. However my budget got its limits.

    I would be very thankful if someone who has experience with I/Os could answer a few of my questions:

    1. Do I need 2 interfaces. One video interface like the Avid Artist I/O and another audio interface like the prism lyra to connect everything or is there good interfaces for both at once, which is a better option / better deal for the money?

    2. Which interface would be a good pick to connect 3 monitors to it and does it improve integration of my video monitors with software like Avid Media Composer and Davinci Resolve?

    3. What benefits do I get from having the Avid Artist I/O if my computer already has good specs for editing. (Is something of the processing done by the interface (like these Afterburner cards Apple is selling in the new Mac Pros now)

    4. Do video interfaces like the Avid Artist have a long life time?
    I think I read something in another forum where it sounded like they will break every 2 years which got me worried because I would not want to invest a lot of money in it if it is something that breaks every 2 years and is therefor only suited for post houses that have the budget to change them that often.

    Thanks a lot for taking the time to read this. :)

     

     

  • Wed, May 20 2020 10:07 PM In reply to

    • Bruno M
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Feb 11 2010
    • London, UK
    • Posts 697
    • Points 8,750

    Re: Do I need a (Avid Artist) I/O?

    DavidTebbe:
    1. Do I need 2 interfaces. One video interface like the Avid Artist I/O and another audio interface like the prism lyra to connect everything or is there good interfaces for both at once, which is a better option / better deal for the money?

    Depending on the type of I/O you choose, you'll get both video outputs and audio outputs of some sort. For example, at the top end of the range, the Avid DnxIQ has multiple video inputs/outputs (SDI, analogue, HDMI) as well as AES/EBU audio, microphone input, headphone output and line in/out XLR. At the bottom end of the range is something like the Blackmagic Decklink mini monitor, which will output one SDI or HDMI signal with embedded audio.

    DavidTebbe:
    2. Which interface would be a good pick to connect 3 monitors to it and does it improve integration of my video monitors with software like Avid Media Composer and Davinci Resolve?

    You don't need to worry about your computer (GUI) monitors, as they are normally handled by your graphics card, or in the case of a laptop, your laptop screen and an additional monitor connected via HDMI/Thunderbolt. You only need to be concerned with how to connect your reference monitor - in your case the Eizo. Some of the Avid range will work with other software like Resolve or Adobe Premiere, but the cheapest option (if you want compatability with other software) is probably to get one of the range of Blackmagic Decklink or Ultrastudio products.

    DavidTebbe:
    3. What benefits do I get from having the Avid Artist I/O if my computer already has good specs for editing. (Is something of the processing done by the interface (like these Afterburner cards Apple is selling in the new Mac Pros now)

    A lot of the I/O hardware just provides the connections to your device. The Avid DnxIQ has a built-in hardware decoder for  DnxHR, but this only works if you're capturing from an external device - something that's becoming less common.

    DavidTebbe:
    4. Do video interfaces like the Avid Artist have a long life time?
    I think I read something in another forum where it sounded like they will break every 2 years

    I don't think I've heard of any of the Avid IO products particularly having a short life of only a couple of years. Of course hardware sometimes breaks or gets 'bricked' by a failed firmware update, but in general, All the hardware I've owned (both from Avid and Blackmagic) have lasted several years without problems.

    If you're intending to use your hardware only for Media Composer, then the Avid range should offer you the most trouble-free operation (if you're willing to pay the extra premium for Avid hardware). If you want to be able to use your Eizo and Genelecs with other software, and you want the best 'bang for your buck', the Blackmagic range is probably the way to go.

     

    HP Z800, HP G3 Studio, SonnetFusion RAID, Mojo DX, Symphony 2018.9, JVC DTV1910 HD tube monitor, HP Dreamcolor, Avid Artist Color, Avid Transport [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, May 21 2020 12:56 AM In reply to

    • Martin Fox
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Mar 14 2014
    • Sydney Australia
    • Posts 260
    • Points 2,765

    Re: Do I need a (Avid Artist) I/O?

    I use a Blackmagic ultra studio mini to monitor picture and sound for mediacomposer and resolve, out to a eizo monitor.

    I don’t have capture as my work is file based

    its HD only, and I have to extract the audio from the hdmi stream with another device.

    it all works well, very inexpensive and has allowed me to really hone my colour grading in resolve, (I had the eizo professionally calibrated).

    i strongly suggest you get inexpensive gear that’s popular for easy resale and upgrade as you need, the new tech of 4K and HDR is just around the corner (too expensive atm)

    iMac Retina27 late 2017 4.5Gz i7 40GB AMD 8GB with Sata Raid OS 10.13.4 MC 2018.3 BMD mini monitor with Eizo monitor [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, May 21 2020 6:47 AM In reply to

    Re: Do I need a (Avid Artist) I/O?

    Re 1.: MC will not be able to use different I/O boxes for picture and sound. When a video I/O is installed, that is used for audio too. No way to route it to another box.

    Re 2. An I/O does not connect to your normal interface monitors. Those would connect to the computer's graphics cards. The I/O is only used to drive the 'program' video (and audio).

    Re 3. The Artist I/O mainly offers a bunch of different input and output connectors. It will not accelerate anything. But, as any I/O box, you are outputting an actual video signal in an actual video color space at an actual video frame rate. Using a third computer monitor in FullScreen mode is very possible, but does usually mean that the video signal is modified to fit the GFX card&monitor's color space and frame rate.

    Re 4. There are many, many Avid Nitris DX boxes around, well over 10 years old. That said, the current Artist Boxes are built by BlackMagic Design and AJA. They have been serving the industry for quite some time, so I would bet these are solid products (I suspect AJA's reputation to be a little more solid, but not sure how much). The obvious reason an I/O becomes obsolete is when new formats (8K, HDR) emerge, which they may not be able to support. But it very much depends on your work and workflow it that is an issue (I have been using HD Rec709 monitoring for 11 years or so, and I doubt I will go to 4K any time soon.
    IMHO, unless you need the elaborate I/O, I would tend to go for as simple an I/O that fits your needs, you can then always get a new I/O with newer features when you need it.

    I replaced my (still fully working) Nitris DX with a BMD Decklink Mini Monitor 4K. 

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, May 21 2020 10:57 AM In reply to

    Re: Do I need a (Avid Artist) I/O?

    Hi Bruno
    Thank you very much for the detailed reply! It was super helpful and I learned a lot reading your post.

  • Thu, May 21 2020 11:13 AM In reply to

    Re: Do I need a (Avid Artist) I/O?

    Hi Job ter Burg

    Thanks a lot for telling me that MC is unable to use different I/O boxes for picture and sound. There is a good chance I would have bought an expensive audio interface first and later a video I/O hoping that I could use both together. So you really saved me here, thank you!

  • Thu, May 21 2020 11:17 AM In reply to

    Re: Do I need a (Avid Artist) I/O?

    Hi Martin
    Thank you for sharing your setup with me. I will have a look at the Blackmagic devices aswell. Buying inexpensive gear that is popular for resale at first is something I will consider now. :)

  • Sun, Jun 7 2020 1:43 PM In reply to

    • Mercer
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Apr 15 2010
    • UK
    • Posts 513
    • Points 6,545

    Re: Do I need a (Avid Artist) I/O?

    I'd love to know whether Avid ever intends to offer another colour panel, or open up Symphony to 3rd party support. I'm in the market for a smaller control panel and really wanted something to work with both Avid and Resolve. Artist Colors on the 2nd hand market are very grotty (they don't seem to have lasted well) and support seems to be fading. BMD's Micro panel is too limited, works only in Resolve and the Tangents intentionally hobbled in Resolve. If Avid have no intention of introducing new similar hardware and up then I think Symphony is destined to fade too. 

    MC with Symphony option, 2020.4, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P3200/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Jun 7 2020 3:15 PM In reply to

    • Bruno M
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Feb 11 2010
    • London, UK
    • Posts 697
    • Points 8,750

    Re: Do I need a (Avid Artist) I/O?

    Mercer:
    If Avid have no intention of introducing new similar hardware and up then I think Symphony is destined to fade too. 

    I somehow doubt that Symphony will get any significant upgrade, but will simply continue to be included to insure legacy support for older projects.

    It seems that Avid are happy to let others provide the functions demanded by users. For example, Boris providing modern effects with Continuum and Filmlight giving decent colour correction with Baselight Editions.

    Avid are using the likes of Blackmagic to make their IO hardware, so I suspect they're not going to be getting involved with designing and building a colour panel to replace the Artist Color (which was made by Euphonics). 

    Maybe they could convince BMD to design their colour panels to work with MC, which would at least extend the usefullness of the Symphony CC tool for fast turnaround projects that don't need a comprehensive grade.

    I still have an Artist Color which was bought second-hand in decent condition and I still see a few come up on Ebay (UK) that look OK. As Avid have marked these EOL, they are being sold very reasonably - about a quarter of their original price, so they certainly make a good stop-gap until something better (hopefully) comes along. It's somewhat ironic that they've worked so well with Resolve and Baselight Editions, but pretty poorly with Symphony!

    HP Z800, HP G3 Studio, SonnetFusion RAID, Mojo DX, Symphony 2018.9, JVC DTV1910 HD tube monitor, HP Dreamcolor, Avid Artist Color, Avid Transport [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Jun 7 2020 3:22 PM In reply to

    • Mercer
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Apr 15 2010
    • UK
    • Posts 513
    • Points 6,545

    Re: Do I need a (Avid Artist) I/O?

    I totally agree Bruno. I would happily buy a used Artist Color and transport and I seriously looked at doing so but it makes little sense when good ones are quite high priced and future support is very uncertain. I almost plunked on the BMD micro panel, but as I say it is too limited and too clunky for my desk space. I will more than likely buy the Tangent Wave2 but Resolve hasn't updated support for Tangent since version 9 and are unlikely to do so now. I'm not prepared to fork out for Baselight since I've already paid for the Symphony option. And since there is nothing else I am likely to use it with I am being very optimistic in hoping, maybe Avid might open 3rd party support out. To me that would make sense, unless they have something up their sleeve - why give up on Symphony?

    MC with Symphony option, 2020.4, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P3200/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Jun 7 2020 6:11 PM In reply to

    Re: Do I need a (Avid Artist) I/O?

    I don't think they have given up on Symphony, but MC has just never really worked well with outboard controllers. The audio ones are OK, the Transport and Color were never really very useful. I have two collecting dust. It's not that the controllers are bad (they work find with other software), but that MC is not really built to be controlled by them. At least, that's how I experience it.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jun 8 2020 9:56 AM In reply to

    • Mercer
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Apr 15 2010
    • UK
    • Posts 513
    • Points 6,545

    Re: Do I need a (Avid Artist) I/O?

    Good to know Job. That's convinced me not to seek them out. But a proper grading tool really needs a control surface if you do a lot and are to get any real productivity from it. I am doing more and more grading in Resolve and the time has come to get a control surface. Without speculation and I realise Avid's plans don't revolve around me but some indication of where it's going would be mighty helpful.

    MC with Symphony option, 2020.4, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P3200/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jun 8 2020 11:46 AM In reply to

    Re: Do I need a (Avid Artist) I/O?

    I was told that the Artist Color does in fact work well with Resolve.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jun 8 2020 12:54 PM In reply to

    • Bruno M
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Feb 11 2010
    • London, UK
    • Posts 697
    • Points 8,750

    Re: Do I need a (Avid Artist) I/O?

    It's true that Avid haven't given up on Symphony - if you're looking at their current product page for the Symphony option.

    https://www.avid.com/products/media-composer-symphony-option

    However, reading this page, I would say the writer is living in cloud cuckoo land!

    The photo is the first piece of mis-information. It would imply that Symphony works with a colour panel. The Artist Color (shown in the photo) is currently EOL and not available for purchase. Symphony won't work with any other colour panel, so anyone buying this product, assuming it to work with any currently available panel would be sorely disappointed.

    Another thing I take issue with is some of the statements made about Symphony. Most professional editors and colourists I know would class the Symphony CC tool as just about adequete for basic work. In fast turnaround programmes where there's insufficient time (or budget) for anything else, you can get a decent result that's suitable for broadcast. Their claim that you can....

    "Get the look you want with shape-based, advanced, secondary, and relational color tools, plus NaturalMatch". 

    ... is plainly stretching the truth. Symphony might have been able to make this claim in 2003, but to say it's 'advanced' when compared to Baselight or Resolve is just nonsense. The recent shaped-based correction is very basic, as is the secondaries, and although the relational tool can still be useful, it's desperately in need of updating to make it more relevent with file-based media.

    Even if you can live with all that, and get hold of a second-hand Artist Color panel, you're going to find it really laggy to work with. I believe they knew about this from the beginning. If you look at the product demo video they produced back in 2013...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XSueOrNjbs

    ...at 4:50, you'll hear the demonstrator say "man, this is clunky...slow".

    As Job mentioned, yes it works really well with Resolve and Baselight Editions, so it's nothing to do with the hardware but simply to do with the Avid coding. It's a shame, as the ethernet control capabilities of the entire Artist series had definite benefits for some post houses.

    I'm not trying to deliberately put down Avid. I've used/defended it my whole career (since 1995) and MC is still my favourite editing platform. I now teach MC in various film schools, and always start by telling students how it's still number one for long-form and features. But when I show them Symphony I'm quite frankly embarrassed. Most of them have dabbled with Resolve, so they know what decent grading software can achieve. I find it hard to convince them of any reason why they might want to consider Symphony, apart from those I mentioned above. When they then hear the price for the Symphony option, they simply laugh!

     

    HP Z800, HP G3 Studio, SonnetFusion RAID, Mojo DX, Symphony 2018.9, JVC DTV1910 HD tube monitor, HP Dreamcolor, Avid Artist Color, Avid Transport [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jun 8 2020 2:54 PM In reply to

    • Mercer
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Apr 15 2010
    • UK
    • Posts 513
    • Points 6,545

    Re: Do I need a (Avid Artist) I/O?

    Job ter Burg:

    I was told that the Artist Color does in fact work well with Resolve.

    Sorry I wrote something wrong at first. Yes I believe it's OK but all 3rd party panel support hasn't moved on since version 9 and a lot of important stuff has added since then, such as midtone detail. I'm not sure how configurable the Artist Color is in Resolve but in any case all second hand ones regardless of price, seem worn out and fragile. Does the transport work well in Avid?

     

    MC with Symphony option, 2020.4, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P3200/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]
Page 1 of 2 (20 items) 1 2 Next >

© Copyright 2011 Avid Technology, Inc.  Terms of Use |  Privacy Policy |  Site Map |  Find a Reseller