Latest post Thu, Oct 8 2020 6:04 AM by Jeroen van Eekeres. 19 replies.
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  • Sat, Apr 11 2020 9:01 AM

    Media Composer 2019 - the weak link in MediaCentral

    In September 2019 I created 40 post-production suites powered by MC2019 and supported by MediaCentral Cloud Ux, Interplay Production, Phonetic Research, Remote Ingest, Avid Nexis Storage and plus from Media Composer Cloud; never as in this historical period all this has been key in getting on with the job.

    In Italy, we are the largest post-production facility among private companies, excluding enterprises. We are a modern post-production company that fully responds to Avid Everywhere's request.

    From day one it was immediately clear that the possibility of searching and sharing through Media Central Cloud Ux and Interplay were truly a step forward.

    Media Central Cloud UX is a young project; it has some imperfections and still requires development but there is no doubt that your team is doing well and each new version has brought new benefits.

    In this wonderful world, the only discordant note is Media Composer 2019.

    I don't understand why in order to introduce a more modern UI, you had to undo all the previous developments that took years to implement!!!

    Given that getting a feeling with a UI is a personal objective and that one can like or dislike it, I am asking if you have ever tried and tested MC2019 before distributing it? Have you tried MC2019 in the real world? Have you ever edited a video with MC2019?

    Float Panels, Bin Container and Workspace are all great but they don't function properly and they destroy the work I do.

    We edit complex videos, not news, not promos. Our timelines have 10 video levels, 30 audio levels, have a duration of 100 minutes and present about 13000 items.

    Have you ever tried MC2019 with this type of content?

    The new features of the UI you care so much about, has made Media Composer unable to work properly.

    Do you know that MC2019 cannot export an AAF in any way if its contents are complex timelines?

    Do you know that MC2019 is unable to consolidate a complex timeline?

    Did you know that in 1996 it was possible to make complex consolidated timelines with Avid Film Composer 7.1 without any problems and that in 2020 the software is no longer able to do them?

    And the list of things that don't work is so long that the forum doesn't have enough space.

    Media Composer 2019 has made our job so complicated and we have managed to get by, only because we know our job well!!

     

    I apologize for my outburst but I really care about you and I wouldn’t want you to make more mistakes, but MC2019 must be rewritten! As it is now it cannot work properly in the real world.

     

    In the meantime, I am forced to use MC 2018.12.10 in all my suites. And that was by far your best project.

  • Sat, Apr 11 2020 11:10 AM In reply to

    Re: Media Composer 2019 - the weak link in MediaCentral

    Do you have Avid support tickets open for all these issues?

    You must have support with such a large setup so I imagine you are raising these issues with Avid who are investigating.

    I suspect many large broadcasters and facilities are still on MC2018 or earlier as its the norm that people don't move up until a new version has been tested in a experimental environment first.

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hosted Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

  • Tue, Apr 14 2020 7:54 AM In reply to

    Re: Media Composer 2019 - the weak link in MediaCentral

    I consider myself a professional in this sector and I know the youth problems of a software.

    I believe that a software with problems should be considered a BETA. If released, it is assumed that the test in a protected environment has been done.

    I'd like to understand if someone with a system similar to mine is experiencing the same problems.

    Media Composer 2019 has evolved and added interesting features but is still too young to be considered Stable Version.

  • Tue, Apr 14 2020 8:02 AM In reply to

    Re: Media Composer 2019 - the weak link in MediaCentral

    There is indeed beta testing done by a group of willing users and the testing the small team at Avid conduct. But software is complex nowadays and there are a myriad of interactions between software and hardware that can cause issues not experienced by any of the testers. The modern users demand frequent feature updates and fixes and to hold software back in Beta for months on end is nolonger the way.

    But in my 25 plus years every single installation or upgrade to an installation has involved testing at each stage and if required fault finding and resolution.

    So in answer to your question (and I deliver training to a lot of UK bradcasters and Post houses) no I've not experinced any users having the issues you are having. Some have particular issues that they have created workarounds for but none replicate yur issues. All arein contact with Avid support and have the issues logged so that the developers and beta testers can try and replicate the issus and then ensure resolutions are rolled forward into future updates.

    Hence why I asked what the Avid incident references were for your issues so we can see how they are progressing.

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hosted Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

  • Tue, Apr 14 2020 10:24 AM In reply to

    Re: Media Composer 2019 - the weak link in MediaCentral

    Pat Horridge:
    But in my 25 plus years every single installation or upgrade to an installation has involved testing at each stage and if required fault finding and resolution.

    Pat, As a reseller ACSR I'm jumping in on this one. I would like to ask you to consider very carefully what you just wrote.

    1. There is a beta testing team... yes for MC there is. For Nexis, Interplay and all peripherals it needs to integrate with? 

    2. Software is complex. Exactly and none of the end users and beta testers have a setup in which, lets say, 90% of the complexity can be tested. This is of course also not asked from anyone... it would require rooms with hardware/workstations and machine rooms filled with servers that are not used on a day to day basis running a multitude of supported software version combinations. But even when you reduce the complecity to standalone media composer, the possible hardware combinations are massive. Hopefully the beta testing team is so diverse that it covers a large part of the hardware/software combinations but also the diversity of workflows and functionalities.

    I'm now 25 years into broadcast and I have never ever seen a broadcaster that has a duplicate of each functionality of his setup for testing purposes sitting there just to test the next version of product X. A solution that many are implementing is of course VM's but there is a limited set of products, especially restricted due to hardware needs, that can be tested that way.

    The point of my post, going forward, Avid has put me in the frontline of an unvoluntary beta testing program with my end customers, ranging from that single local storage MC setup to the all bells and whistles mediacentral setup. while neither the customer or I have the resources to test what should, in theory, already have been tested by Avid.

    In the past we contacted Avid support to learn what we did wrong when setting up or using Avid products, this has over time more and more changed in a bug feedback channel in which you can't influence the quality of the L1 -> L2 -> L3 -> engineering + documentation dept. communication and just hope that that next version will include a fix.

    In other words: We simply live in a world where Avid released a Nexis client version that simply did not work with Media composer, it exposed absence of an end to end testing program of basic functionalities. In the most simple wording: this is wrong. And it has nothing to do with our own testing responsibilities.

    Most of the MC/NC, Interplay, Nexis, ISIS, Unity stuff. [view my complete system specs]

    Avid reseller ACSR at Telmaco

    http://www.telmaco.gr/en/

  • Tue, Apr 14 2020 11:44 AM In reply to

    Re: Media Composer 2019 - the weak link in MediaCentral

    Hi Jeroen

    you have expressed much of my thoughts with your words.

    specifically here:

    "The point of my post, going forward, Avid has put me in the frontline of an unvoluntary beta testing program with my end customers, ranging from that single local storage MC setup to the all bells and whistles mediacentral setup."

    Thank you

  • Tue, May 5 2020 8:35 PM In reply to

    • Adman
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    Re: Media Composer 2019 - the weak link in MediaCentral

    I am sorry you are having so many issues. I would suggest the "divide and conquer" tactic. Use these forums to have users and AVID tech support attempt tackle one issue at a time (in order of importance to your workflows) by providing each specific issue (Support tickets for each issue) instead of making blanket statements. Also, please add your system specs to your profile... or, if possible, indicate the specs of the multiple systems that are being used in your production flow? Since AVID has done a complete redesign in 2019, it is an unfortunate fact of life that there will be glitches as the "new" software is maturing.

    Mac Pro, 64GB Ram. 1TB SSD system drive, 250Gb SSD external (media) drive. QHD Ultra wide, thunderbolt LG monitor, MC 2019.12.1. Pro Tools 11 HD (Mbox... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, May 6 2020 10:28 AM In reply to

    Re: Media Composer 2019 - the weak link in MediaCentral

    Adman:

    I am sorry you are having so many issues. I would suggest the "divide and conquer" tactic. Use these forums to have users and AVID tech support attempt tackle one issue at a time (in order of importance to your workflows) by providing each specific issue (Support tickets for each issue) instead of making blanket statements. Also, please add your system specs to your profile... or, if possible, indicate the specs of the multiple systems that are being used in your production flow? Since AVID has done a complete redesign in 2019, it is an unfortunate fact of life that there will be glitches as the "new" software is maturing.

     

    Yes I'd agree. Document the exact setup as you will be asked it many times. Produce a bug list of issues.

    Ensure they can be reproduced and then raise each one and see what solutions can be found. Those of us that have input can pass those issues along and help ensure solutions are embedded in updates.

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hosted Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

  • Wed, May 6 2020 11:28 AM In reply to

    Re: Media Composer 2019 - the weak link in MediaCentral

    Pat Horridge:
    Ensure they can be reproduced and then raise each one and see what solutions can be found.

    Guys,

    The priority of a customer that describes himself as:

    alessandroB:
    we are the largest post-production facility among private companies, excluding enterprises. We are a modern post-production company that fully responds to Avid Everywhere's request.

    obviously understands the need to contact support and I would expect he has done so many times before. I assume we all understand a company as decribed above has production volumes and deadlines to meet to reach a desired return on investment when buying a system consisting of:

    alessandroB:
    40 post-production suites powered by MC2019 and supported by MediaCentral Cloud Ux, Interplay Production, Phonetic Research, Remote Ingest, Avid Nexis Storage

    So the priority of OP is to roll back. He is:

    alessandroB:
    forced to use MC 2018.12.10 in all my suites.

    That move however conflicts with the ability to reproduce the issues and here starts the conflict of interest. OP now has to budget in time in his productions to deal with a process of going forwards and backwards on one or multiple components of his system. I fully agree this needs to be considered a matter of:

    Adman:
    an unfortunate fact of life that there will be glitches as the "new" software is maturing.

    It is all about the word "maturing" here. There will always be debate on whether the current state of maturity of a product should be reflected in terms of Beta, Alpha, Gold release etc... The point here being that Avid keeps improving the information (inc. Marketing?) that respectfully respects all party's interests.

    And from that perspective I applaud the recent developments, 3 versions, 2018, 2019 and now 2020 of MC being under development at the same time. Public beta's to deal with Apple OS's going forward. But there is still room for improvement as this thread confirms the differences in 'maturity' between the 3 versions and how this is seen by an end customer.

     

     

     

    Most of the MC/NC, Interplay, Nexis, ISIS, Unity stuff. [view my complete system specs]

    Avid reseller ACSR at Telmaco

    http://www.telmaco.gr/en/

  • Wed, May 6 2020 12:21 PM In reply to

    Re: Media Composer 2019 - the weak link in MediaCentral

    All that makes sense.

    But personaly I wouldn't have made a 2019 facility in Septemeber 2019. By september it wasn't what I'd consider a mature product.

    I'd have tested and rolled out a 2018 version and then looked at 2019 on the side with a few seats to see how it behaved.

    But that doesn't help the OP move forwards. And as an moderator here I can only offer advice. I have no ability to change Avids development and deployment model.

    Our attempts here are to try and help the OP move forwards as its assumed posting here was for help.

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hosted Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

  • Wed, May 6 2020 1:07 PM In reply to

    Re: Media Composer 2019 - the weak link in MediaCentral

    Hi Pat,

    Pat Horridge:
    I'd have tested and rolled out a 2018 version and then looked at 2019 on the side with a few seats to see how it behaved.

    That's exactly how we deal with setups until now. We have started installing 2019.12 at the first locations. 

    Pat Horridge:
    But that doesn't help the OP move forwards. And as an moderator here I can only offer advice. I have no ability to change Avids development and deployment model.

    Of course, I just believe it is that path forward for OP, Avid you me etc... which is subject of this thread. IMHO the 'contact support' response is pointing to the only option (besides posting here) so no faul and I assume nothing OP wasn't aware of. However I also see it being used as a pacifier to look away from the consequences of the process that follows when doing so.

    Maybe I'm overreacting or patronizing too much and we all understand the predicament. Maybe it's because I have been facing a lot of this support feedback process the last 5-6 years... But when I read OP's post it clearly resonated and I found the reactions typical for the problem I see.

    Most of the MC/NC, Interplay, Nexis, ISIS, Unity stuff. [view my complete system specs]

    Avid reseller ACSR at Telmaco

    http://www.telmaco.gr/en/

  • Wed, May 13 2020 7:01 AM In reply to

    Re: Media Composer 2019 - the weak link in MediaCentral

    I fear that superficiality is the common thread of this modern development.

    I think the marketing department is blind, but still commands the commercial need to comply with the release proclamations.

    MC2020 was released on April 27th.

    I insist that the MC2019-MC2020 project was not ready to be released.

    I read comments where the writer seems to have accepted that it is absolutely normal for a product that has a cost to not work and even pay to participate in the development.

    MC 2018 is currently media composer, MC2019-2020 looks like final cut pro x, a stuff to play with images.

  • Fri, Oct 2 2020 10:31 AM In reply to

    • TrevorA
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
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    Re: Media Composer 2019 - the weak link in MediaCentral

    I've used 2019 & 2020 successfully for many months stand-alone. Never seen them in Interplay environments. Those places *always* hold back before upgrading.

    (I'm currently suffering the bugs of 2018.8 in IP environment.)

    Lack of large scale sporting events probably holding back MC/IP dev too. Those temp installations often used to road test newer versions. (You can tell the pioneers - they have arrows in their back)

  • Fri, Oct 2 2020 2:51 PM In reply to

    Re: Media Composer 2019 - the weak link in MediaCentral

    TrevorA:
    (I'm currently suffering the bugs of 2018.8 in IP environment.)

    And there is the opposite of the 'latest the greatest' problem described by OP. Trevor, the amount of fixes that have been implemented since 2018.8 in the version that is now called 2018.12.12 is huge. As a result 2018.12.x has become a rock solid product and there is no reason I can think of to try to troubleshoot issue's with any prior 2018.x version anymore, with or without Interplay. Especially because those MC/IP setups often have enough MC stations connected to the same system that testing the updated version is possible on just 1 station without disrupting a whole production.

    And here lies IMHO the core of the problem. Including bug fixes and new functionality into the same single release chain creates a high possibility for a 2 steps forward 3 steps back scenario in which the trust in new versions steadily diminishes. Keeping them seperated, be it only to a certain extend, is a requirement in this professional broadcast business if you ask me.

    Finding the right extend by Avid rolling them out and their resellers and customers installing them at the right time, that's what this is all about.

     

     

    From the old Apple Quadro 950 to HP Z8xx. My current own system: 1x Z420 E5 1650 16GB memory, 128GB SSD, 1x XW8600, 2x 3.0Ghz Quadcore, 12GB memory... [view my complete system specs]

    Jeroen van Eekeres 

    Technical director, Broadcast support engineer, Avid ACSR.

     

    Always have a backup of your projects....Always!!!! Yes Always!!!!

    A.V.I.D....... Another Version In Development

    www.mediaoffline.com

     

     

     

  • Fri, Oct 2 2020 7:19 PM In reply to

    • TrevorA
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • London
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    Re: Media Composer 2019 - the weak link in MediaCentral

    Jeroen van Eekeres:
    Trevor, the amount of fixes that have been implemented since 2018.8 in the version that is now called 2018.12.12 is huge.

    I'm sure - freelancer has no say on version# sadly

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