Latest post Fri, May 15 2020 4:35 PM by Jason Sedmak. 39 replies.
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  • Sun, Apr 26 2020 2:53 PM In reply to

    Re: COVID-19: Implement a Webcam output directly from MC?

    Hey Marianna, 

    Since you dropped here, would it be possible to add to your (prob long) wishlist of features for MC, some sort of "virtual cam" output? That would make our lives so much simpler. The solution I got into was petty cumbersome, some people are buying hardware for this, and it should be easier than that.

    Thanks a lot for your always everywhere hardwork.

    Cheers!

    MacBook Pro 16 (2019), 8GB 5500MX, 32GB RAM, OSX 10.15.4, MC 2020.4 || Mac Pro 8 core 2.4 Ghz (Middle 2010), 40 Gb RAM, BM Mini Monitor 4k, GTX970 4GB... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Apr 27 2020 1:01 PM In reply to

    • Mercer
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    Re: COVID-19: Implement a Webcam output directly from MC?

    Ryan Johnson:
    Some heroic developer out there should write an Open_IO plugin that routes video and audio directly from Media Composer to a virtual Webcam device that's available to Zoom, Skype, Google Hangouts, etc. (remember 'iChat Theater' in FCP7?)

    Isn't that what NDI Tools is? I know it doesn't work on Mac but does use an Open-IO plugin.

    MC with Symphony option, 2020.4, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P3200/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Apr 27 2020 3:46 PM In reply to

    • Ryan Johnson
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    Re: COVID-19: Implement a Webcam output directly from MC?

    NDI Tools for Windows includes 'NDI Virtual Input' which can receive an NDI signal and convert it to a webcam 'device' for use in Skype, Zoom, etc. Unfortunately this specific tool isn't available for Mac.

    Media Composer on Mac does suport NDI output vie the OpenIO_NDI plugin, and the NDI 'signal' can be recieved by a number of third party applications aside from NewTek's own monitoring tools. Ecamm was one that could recieve NDI, then present the output as a webcam device to Zoom, etc. However, recent security updates to Zoom have broken compatibility with some third party webcam apps.

    There's a team working on 'OBS VirtualCam' for Mac: https://github.com/johnboiles/obs-mac-virtualcam

    ...which adds the virtual webcam output feature to the popular open source 'OBS' streaming software. OBS can be configured to accept an NDI input, so this would be the bridge that connects Media Composer to video conferecning apps. So far I've only been able to get this to work with Google Meet, and it's still very much an alpha release.

    The ideal would be a direct output from MC to a virtual webcam device with no intermediate software or hardware necessary. I would never assume that this is an easy task, but given the current circumstances, this would be a very valuable feature and it would set MC apart from their competitors.

    iMacs, MacPro's, OSX 10.14.6, MC 2019.12, Nexis 2019.12 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Apr 27 2020 3:49 PM In reply to

    Re: COVID-19: Implement a Webcam output directly from MC?

    Edited, because Ryan input was much more cohesive and informative.

     

    MacBook Pro 16 (2019), 8GB 5500MX, 32GB RAM, OSX 10.15.4, MC 2020.4 || Mac Pro 8 core 2.4 Ghz (Middle 2010), 40 Gb RAM, BM Mini Monitor 4k, GTX970 4GB... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, May 8 2020 2:01 AM In reply to

    Re: COVID-19: Implement a Webcam output directly from MC?

    NDI has just released a "Virtual Input" Mac compatible on their website. Great news. Can use that with Internal NDI output to create a virtual webcam output directly from MC! Finally.

    MacBook Pro 16 (2019), 8GB 5500MX, 32GB RAM, OSX 10.15.4, MC 2020.4 || Mac Pro 8 core 2.4 Ghz (Middle 2010), 40 Gb RAM, BM Mini Monitor 4k, GTX970 4GB... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, May 8 2020 3:03 PM In reply to

    • Ryan Johnson
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    Re: COVID-19: Implement a Webcam output directly from MC?

    I just tested this with MC 2018.12.6 running on Mac OS 10.14.6. I can confirm that it works with Zoom (v5.0.1) and Google Meet (running in Chrome v81.)

    Enable NDI output in MC, then launch the NDI Virtual Input app, and it will pick up the video/audio from MC. Choose 'NDI Video' as your "camera" in Zoom, etc.

    I haven't tried Skype, and I can confirm that this doesn't work with Cisco's Webex application.

    -rj

     

    iMacs, MacPro's, OSX 10.14.6, MC 2019.12, Nexis 2019.12 [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, May 8 2020 5:09 PM In reply to

    • morsey
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    Re: COVID-19: Implement a Webcam output directly from MC?

    Eduardo Serrano:

    NDI has just released a "Virtual Input" Mac compatible on their website. Great news. Can use that with Internal NDI output to create a virtual webcam output directly from MC! Finally.

     

    Oh works great! Thanks for the info.

  • Sat, May 9 2020 1:35 PM In reply to

    • TrevorA
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    Re: COVID-19: Implement a Webcam output directly from MC?

    https://ndi.tv/tools/#download-tools for the Tools

    NB the 'sources' menu dropdown on the virtual input does not list the Avid but the menu bar ('NDI') does. 

    iMac 5K on High Sierra MC 2020.5, HP z420 MC 2020.4 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, May 10 2020 10:27 AM In reply to

    • TrevorA
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    Re: COVID-19: Implement a Webcam output directly from MC?

    Just tried NDI with Zoom, Discord  & Google Meet and the sound was pretty terrible with all of them. Pictures good though. Zoom probably best for audio overall (plus folks more likely to have it installed). 

    iMac 5K on High Sierra MC 2020.5, HP z420 MC 2020.4 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, May 10 2020 11:39 AM In reply to

    Re: COVID-19: Implement a Webcam output directly from MC?

    In Zoom, make sure to turn on "Use Original Sound".  And/or, in the Preferences, under Audio, click Advanced and turn off as many of the sound enhancement features as possible.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, May 10 2020 12:27 PM In reply to

    • TrevorA
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    Re: COVID-19: Implement a Webcam output directly from MC?

    Job ter Burg:

    In Zoom, make sure to turn on "Use Original Sound".  And/or, in the Preferences, under Audio, click Advanced and turn off as many of the sound enhancement features as possible.

    yep, did all that but it didn't seem to make much difference. All WiFi atm so maybe wired will improve it but I suspect it's codec limitations

     

     

    iMac 5K on High Sierra MC 2020.5, HP z420 MC 2020.4 [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, May 12 2020 5:09 PM In reply to

    Re: COVID-19: Implement a Webcam output directly from MC?

    Allow me to pipe in here as this has literally been my life for the last two weeks trying to nail this down (I'm also needing to implement this for my shop's other staff who prefer to work in Premiere). One can also utilize only bits of what's below to skip the whole virtual camera thing straight to zoom, but it's safer to scale your video to 720 and I prefer to integrate a webcam to communicate with clients rather than an auxillary communication method.

    Eduardo's early posts got me started on eCamm Live, which really is a great tool for not only scaling down the AVID output but also adding in a PIP from a webcam. But, I've chosen to go the cheaper route via the free OBS Studio software because with multiple remote editing seats needing subscriptions to both eCamm and Zoom, it gets expensive fast.

    AVID's native NDI output is truly well integrated, and works SO MUCH BETTER than having to install the NDI plugin for Adobe CC (which, really doesn't work at all because it lags and flat out crashes after about 30 minutes). Because AVID does not allow you to output to multiple streams, the problem with NDI for me is I would lose my video output via my BlackMagic card to my color-critical monitor, audio and scopes. If this isn't a problem for you for the purposes of a remote edit collaboration with clients, great, just select (and make sure it's blinking red) the NDI output in AVID and make NDI the input source in OBS.

    A wonderful thread was found on another site that helped me a bunch, read here if you'd like:

    https://sofimarshall.com/real-time-remote-editing/

    It's worth the read, but if you don't want to take the time, I'll summarize my discoveries (based on mac OS, Blackmagic video I/O and zoom (better configuration options than skype)):

    1) Likely the best method for high-quality versatility and sync is by way of an outboard web-streaming hardware box. The Blackmagic webcaster is great, but it's now a little hard to come by and is (relatively) expensive. A cheaper version is the BM ATEM Mini (and others), but when you have multiple seats like we do, there IS a software-based method not requiring any hardware purchases, and, based on my tests, definitely good enough.

    2) If eCamm Live is your preferred software intermediary, great! If OBS is your bag, that's fine, too (and I'm sure there are others). Both allow you to "collect" the output from AVID, scale down to 720p and combine with a webcam so you have talk-back to clients (and picture if you'd like). Then you send that "virtual feed" to your steaming portal of choice (zoom, in my case).

    3) Having a third-party method to marry and route mutliple audio paths isn't a definte must-have, but it streamlines a very difficult part of the process. For me, Blackhole got a little complicated, so I chose to use Loopback, and I must say, I can't believe I've never used this powerful tool before. This software does carry a $99 one-time price, but it's so worth it. The demo WILL let you operate fully, with the caviat that after about 20 minutes or so it'll start making noise in your audio path. You can keep your calls short, or switch it off and on again to get a new time window.

    Steps:

    1. Install OBS Studio (links below), obs-ndi-4.9.0.pkg, ndi-runtime-4.5.1.pkg and Newtek's NDI Virtual Monitor (from the NewTekNDIToolsForMacOS install package). Also install Loopback and Zoom. Even if you choose to do what I do and NOT use NDI out of AVID, you'll still need all of these to enable the NDI stream out of OBS to zoom. Honestly, I never tested without them, so it's possible obd-ndi and runtime are only needed if you want to feed NDI as the source, but why not give yourself the option?

    2. Since I have a Blackmagic Decklink card, I've chosen to NOT use NDI from Avid, and instead keep my Hardware set to Blackmagic and feed OBS my AVID signal via the SDI Input on the card, that way I can keep my color monitor and scopes, then, after that path, feed the BM card input. This also is the trick to get a feed from Premiere. You'll still use NDI to send signal to zoom, just not use it as the signal TO OBS.

    3. In OBS, add a source for Blackmagic and a source for your webcam. In the Output video settings, set the scale to 720 (still works great with 1080 if you AND your clients have the network to support it). I also reduced the Blackmagic volume about half way. Using the little gear menu in the audio mixer panel/ Advanced Audio Properties, make sure Audio Monitoring is set to Monitor and Output Blackmagic but Monitor off for the Mic/Aux (webcam). NOTE: I never could figure out how to get the webcam audio to work right from within OBS, which is why I use the settings below in Loopback.

    4. Verify you've muted the audio from your Mic/Aux (webcam), but keep the audio from Blackmagic Device.

    5. Under Tools, NDI output settings, enable "Main Output" and give it a name you can easilty recognize. I chose "OBS."

    6. Launch the Newtek NDI Virtual Input and select your OBS output as the source. This is what enables the OBS NDI feed to work properly for zoom. For what it's worth, eCamm Live didn't require this step.

    7. Open up Loopback and configure and name a Virtual source that marrys the OBS audio (which is only your Blackmagic audio) and your webcam of choice. Open the "Options" menu under the OBS source and deselect "Mute when capturing." Loopback automatically creates a "Pass-Thru" source, but in my tests, I didn't need it so I deleted it. In my tests, there was no lag difference is using the BM audio from OBS vs. using it straight in Loopback, so I've chosen to keep the audio linked to picture by marrying it in OBS.

    8. In zoom, start a meeting, accept the "Join with computer audio."

    9. Set the Video (Camera) input as "NDI Video." Set the Audio input to your Loopback Virtual Source. I leave "Speaker" set to "Same as System" because I also use my Blackmagic card to monitor my audio from AVID AND computer audio. You'll notice that zoom mutes this automatically, so make sure you have an alternative audio monitoring path like I do, or create a "Monitor" patch in Loopback so that you arent' relying on zoom to hear everything but your alternative audio path.

    10. I recommend using headphones whilst on any call to reduce feedback.

    Sorry for the giant thread, but this whole thing isn't easy, and I hope it helps everyone.

    Links:

    Newtek ndi tools: https://www.ndi.tv/tools/

    OBS Studio: https://obsproject.com

    OBS runtime AND OBS-ndi 4.90 packages: https://github.com/Palakis/obs-ndi/releases/tag/4.9.0

    Loopback: https://rogueamoeba.com/loopback/

    zoom: https://zoom.us

    Hackintosh i9-9900K, AMD Radeon Vega 64, 64 GB RAM, m.2 SSD, 8x 10GigE to Terrablock, BM SDI 4k, currently running Mac OS 10.14.6. Symphony 2019.12.0 [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, May 12 2020 8:17 PM In reply to

    Re: COVID-19: Implement a Webcam output directly from MC?

    I'm very happy to see everyone here bringing up solutions and tests. Very cool indeed.

    One side note, and I still need to test this, I think FSP doesn't work while NDI is working. Probably for the same reasons Jason wrote in his extremely helpful step-by-step guide. 

    Like Jason, I also prefer to use my BM as the main output for my panel and speakers, since I have no access to my edit suite, for now, and just my laptop, I can live without it.

    Jason, one thing I didn't quite get from your guide, you are using the same BM card to output from avid to input into OBS? I thought that would not be possible using the same card. Or are you using two cards for that?

    Another option for OBS is Streamlabs which is a more user friendly version of OBS and it has been made mac compatible recently, also free and open source.

    I got my head around in blackhole without much hassle but I do understand that it can be confusing.

    Someone needs to write to Sophie to let her know that this all started bc of her great blog post!

    MacBook Pro 16 (2019), 8GB 5500MX, 32GB RAM, OSX 10.15.4, MC 2020.4 || Mac Pro 8 core 2.4 Ghz (Middle 2010), 40 Gb RAM, BM Mini Monitor 4k, GTX970 4GB... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, May 12 2020 8:39 PM In reply to

    Re: COVID-19: Implement a Webcam output directly from MC?

    Eduardo Serrano:
    Someone needs to write to Sophie to let her know that this all started bc of her great blog post!

    I've thanked her multiple times...and thanks to YOU for getting it started...our video post microcosm is so complicated these days it really requires as much sharing of insight as can be had.

    In answer to your question, just one BM card. Works perfectly. Specifically, it's a Decklink 4k, and since I don't have others to test with currently, I can't verify that this little out and in trick will work with them all. My suspicion is it would because I do believe all ports are triggered as active as soon as your machine boots up, otherwise, I wouldn't be able to feed my mac computer audio to the BM even when AVID is not loaded.

    Best,

    J

    Hackintosh i9-9900K, AMD Radeon Vega 64, 64 GB RAM, m.2 SSD, 8x 10GigE to Terrablock, BM SDI 4k, currently running Mac OS 10.14.6. Symphony 2019.12.0 [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, May 13 2020 1:21 AM In reply to

    Re: COVID-19: Implement a Webcam output directly from MC?

    I'll need to add that after some extensive testing today, I've had some crashing that I'm convinced is a BM driver issue. I'm running a rather unorthodox machine (see specs) so those with genuine products may have better success than I. 
    In the meantime, the same workflow seems to work well using the NDI output of AVid to feed OBS or eCamm. You'll have to fiddle with audio patching if you're used to monitoring audio from BM since NDI will disable that. Loopback is great for exactly this. You can use the Avid audio via NDI, or marry it in Loopback. Sync looks great either way. OBS also has an Output to BM feature, which when I turned on magically also sent picture back out to my studio, but shortly therafter it crashed (once again indicated BM driver issues with this workflow -- at least for me).
    Until I can pin down the BM workflow, use Avid NDI out to feed all of this. If someone else is interested in evaluating all of this on a real Mac, that, too would help.

    Hackintosh i9-9900K, AMD Radeon Vega 64, 64 GB RAM, m.2 SSD, 8x 10GigE to Terrablock, BM SDI 4k, currently running Mac OS 10.14.6. Symphony 2019.12.0 [view my complete system specs]
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