Latest post Fri, Sep 11 2015 4:27 PM by Susi. 9 replies.
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  • Mon, Mar 30 2015 11:56 AM

    film telecined and transferred to 25 fps QT files, for 24fps project - how ??

    Hello all,

    I'm working as an edit assistant on a short, my first time working with something shot on film. We are having trouble to find the right workflow.

     

    The film is shot on film (16mm) at 24fps. Telecined at 25 fps, the lab will send me QT files with burnt-in TC.

    Sound is separate, so I will have to sync all rushes.

    After the edit I'll have to export an EDL and a QT for reference, but they haven't told me yet if they want it 24 or 25 fps.

     

    My problem is, I don't know how to set the project and import the footage for all this. All the info I found regarding telecined footage (whether in the Editing Guide or on the internet) was with footage transferred on tape, not on files. When I open my "film and 24p" settings, I don't have any pulldown options.

     

    If anyone can help, it would be great. And please forgive me if the info IS somewhere... Haven't found it !

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  • Mon, Mar 30 2015 12:12 PM In reply to

    Re: film telecined and transferred to 25 fps QT files, for 24fps project - how ??

    Was it telecined to SD video or HD video? If HD, they should have opted for 24fps. If SD, then you should somehow slow down the clips to 24fps. One option would be to run them through FCP's Cinema Tools, if you have that, or you can force MC to import or AMA-link to the files at 24fps.

    To force a frame-by-frame import via File->Import, go into your 24P PAL project, open the Console (CTRL-6 / CMD-6), and type 'IgnoreQTRate True'. Then import the files. I'm not sure how timecode will be behaving in this scenario, so double check that the TC counters in MC match up with the burn-ins. These would both be running at TC25, since it is a 25fps source originally. Just make sure to set your Master TC above your Record window to TC24 (defaults to TC1, which counts at 25fps).

    To force a 24fps AMA-link, go into your 24P PAL project, open the Console (CTRL-6 / CMD-6), and type 'SetAMAQTForcedFrameRate true 24.000'. Then AMA-link, then transcode the files into Avid MXF MediaFiles. Again, double-check TC counters with burnins before you proceed. These would both be running at TC25, since it is a 25fps source originally. Just make sure to set your Master TC above your Record window to TC24 (defaults to TC1, which counts at 25fps).

     

    'IgnoreQTRate False' turns the Import setting off.

    'SetAMAQTForcedFrameRate false 0' turns the AMA setting off.

     

    In both scenarios, sound will NOT be corrected, so you are best off working in PAL Method 2, bringing in the original sound separately, and syncing up in MC. But you were already planning on that.

     

    If you're in the latest version of MC8, I think there may be another way to interpret the framerate of the source files, but I have no experience with MC8 (I need my ScriptSync).

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Mar 30 2015 1:30 PM In reply to

    Re: film telecined and transferred to 25 fps QT files, for 24fps project - how ??

    Thanks for your answer.

    I don't have the rushes yet, but as I understand it they will be HD.

    So I should make a 24p PAL project, not 1080p 24 ? I thought PAL was for tape-based workflows.

    And yes, I do use the latest version of MC8.

  • Tue, Mar 31 2015 9:35 AM In reply to

    Re: film telecined and transferred to 25 fps QT files, for 24fps project - how ??

    Hello Job,

    Your frame-by-frame import method worked well, thanks a lot !

    I have also tried your AMA link method, but there is still a frame missing every second.

    Also, when I typed "SetAMAQTForcedFrameRate falso 0" as you said, I got an error message : "Unexpected token 'falso' (Can't coerce to type boolean)".

     

    And regarding the question in my last post, would you, or someone else, be able to give me some advice ?

    Is it necessary to set my project as PAL or can I set it as 1080p/24 ? That would be nice as video quality is much better.

    And, 1080p/24 film or video ? It seems I won't have any flex files or things of that kind, the lab needs just an edl and a ref QT movie with their burn-ins.

  • Tue, Mar 31 2015 1:17 PM In reply to

    Re: film telecined and transferred to 25 fps QT files, for 24fps project - how ??

    anaisleroux:

    I thought PAL was for tape-based workflows.

    It's for 24fps SD worflows. Tape or file.

    Your frame-by-frame import method worked well, thanks a lot !

    But do the counters match up to the burnins? Again, if they were doing telecine in HD, they should have done so at 24fps with TC24 and hand you 24fps files. No need to go 25 in HD.

    I have also tried your AMA link method, but there is still a frame missing every second.

    That would indicate the feature is broken in your version of MC, but it may also very well be that this console command no longer works and the feature has to be accessed from the AMA source settings.

    Also, when I typed "SetAMAQTForcedFrameRate falso 0" as you said, I got an error message : "Unexpected token 'falso' (Can't coerce to type boolean)".

    Sorry, typo, 'false', not 'falso'.

     

    Is it necessary to set my project as PAL or can I set it as 1080p/24 ? That would be nice as video quality is much better.
    You should be able to work in either, but again, my first concern would be the timecode side of things. Are the burnins matching up to the source TC counters in MC? If not, you may need to duplicate your Start TC to a TC25 column, and then later use that column for conform (assuming a conform at some point).

    And, 1080p/24 film or video ? It seems I won't have any flex files or things of that kind, the lab needs just an edl and a ref QT movie with their burn-ins.

    The main advantage of making a film project would be the ability to use Perf Slip when syncing up. However, that only works in 35mm projects. There's no downside to creating a 35mm project for your workflow. Only affects the default KeyKode counters, which you don't seem to be using anyway.

    Please do ask the lab why on earth they did TK at 25fps for a 24fps project with HD dailies. Makes no sense to me.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Mar 31 2015 1:40 PM In reply to

    Re: film telecined and transferred to 25 fps QT files, for 24fps project - how ??

    Apparently they do the transfer at 25fps because that's the only rate their machine do...

    Said machine broke down, so I am still waiting for the actual rushes, in the meantime I do all these tests with other footage, not ideal to say the least.

    I suppose I'll get back to you when I'll have done all this with the real rushes.

    Meanwhile, thanks again !

  • Thu, Jul 16 2015 12:52 PM In reply to

    • Susi
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • London, UK
    • Posts 604
    • Points 7,040

    Re: film telecined and transferred to 25 fps QT files, for 24fps project - how ??

    Wondering if you got anywhere with this?
    Awaiting decision on funding for a new telecine of an archive but valuable 16mm project, shot in the 1980s at 24fps.

    Showprint is in reasonable condition, but deserves 'future-proofing' to at least some future.
    Grateful for any ideas about what to ask for (initial quotes referred to deciding between '2K or HD', but no ideas yet beyond that). I'm in UK, so 25fps is now more of a 'norm'.

    MCversion 2020-10-0 on macOS 10.14.6 13" early-2015 Macbook Pro; 3.1GHz Intel Core i7, 16GB 1867 MHz DDR3 Intel Iris Graphics 6100 1536 MB Gizmos... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Jul 16 2015 1:46 PM In reply to

    Re: film telecined and transferred to 25 fps QT files, for 24fps project - how ??

    Susi:
    25fps is now more of a 'norm'
    Not for anything theatrical, and not necessarily for anything Over-The-Top. Just SD and traditional broadcast are 25. Other than that, not much if anything.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jul 28 2015 3:44 PM In reply to

    • Susi
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • London, UK
    • Posts 604
    • Points 7,040

    Re: film telecined and transferred to 25 fps QT files, for 24fps project - how ??

    Thanks, Job! So if I do invest in a new telecine, do you have a suggested filetype to ask for - and project format to import into for subtitling and re-exporting?

    MCversion 2020-10-0 on macOS 10.14.6 13" early-2015 Macbook Pro; 3.1GHz Intel Core i7, 16GB 1867 MHz DDR3 Intel Iris Graphics 6100 1536 MB Gizmos... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Sep 11 2015 4:27 PM In reply to

    • Susi
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • London, UK
    • Posts 604
    • Points 7,040

    Re: film telecined and transferred to 25 fps QT files, for 24fps project - how ??

    16mm 24fps showprint telecined and cleaned up (looked fabulous at this morning's screeening!)
    New scan is a QuickTime Movie, Dimensions 1920x1080, Codecs Linear PCM, Apple ProRes 422 (HQ).

    It's a massive file (42.96GB for the 33min., leader included).
    Want to import and subtitle in order to re-export a cinema-quality file - any advice 'project' and 'media creation' settings?

    Thanks for any insights

     

    MCversion 2020-10-0 on macOS 10.14.6 13" early-2015 Macbook Pro; 3.1GHz Intel Core i7, 16GB 1867 MHz DDR3 Intel Iris Graphics 6100 1536 MB Gizmos... [view my complete system specs]
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