Latest post Thu, Jul 14 2011 8:20 AM by Job ter Burg. 113 replies.
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  • Mon, Jul 11 2011 11:07 PM In reply to

    • tho_wi
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    Re: A month of zero results from Tech Support

    scott auerbach:
    It works on conventional import... my issue has always been with AMA.
    3 files linked through AMA:

    1. DNxHD, exported as QT "same as source" (rec709); linked to MC via AMA

    2. the first file (DNxHD-QT) transcoded to ProRes (FCP's codec) through MPEG Streamclip; linked to MC via AMA. The File looks incorrect in QT but looks correct in MC.

    3. the first file (DNxHD-QT) transcoded to FCP8bit uncompressed (FCP's codec) through MPEG Streamclip; linked to MC via AMA. The File looks incorrect in QT but looks correct in MC.

    http://www7.pic-upload.de/12.07.11/dthk1npt3tyd.jpg

     

     

     

    MC 6.5.3 & 7.0 . Matrox Mini . OS X 10.8.4 . 8x2.26GHz Nehalem . 24GB RAM . Radeon HD 5870 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jul 11 2011 11:11 PM In reply to

    Re: A month of zero results from Tech Support

    So it's not the codecs, but the way Quicktime handles these codecs? That would mean the best solution would be if MC no longer uses the QT engine for export/import...
    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jul 11 2011 11:50 PM In reply to

    • tho_wi
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    Re: A month of zero results from Tech Support

    Job ter Burg:
    So it's not the codecs, but the way Quicktime handles these codecs? That would mean the best solution would be if MC no longer uses the QT engine for export/import...
    I guess it depends ...

    I didn't dive deep into this (as it is simply an annoying issue)... but...:

    direct export from Avid to ProsRes results in an totally inccorrect file whereas export from Avid same as source (rec709) and then transcode this QT file to Pros through MPEG Streamclip (or through QT) looks fine (in MC linked through AMA - but it does not look fine viewed in QT!). The same goes for the uncompressed 8 bit codec.

    Apparently MC bypasses certain QT features on direct export (which is okay if you export to DNxHD or to other Avid codecs but apparently not if you export to Apple codecs). For example direct export from MC to x264 also works fine/consistent.

    But I tell you what :-) ... I don't care how QT displays files. 99.95% of all users don't have a calibrated monitor ... so the video will look different on every monitor anyway.

    MC 6.5.3 & 7.0 . Matrox Mini . OS X 10.8.4 . 8x2.26GHz Nehalem . 24GB RAM . Radeon HD 5870 [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jul 12 2011 5:43 AM In reply to

    Re: A month of zero results from Tech Support

    Marianna:

    If you could point Tech Support to this, I'd appreciate it.  I don't seem to be making any progress in getting my system to work, and I'm clearly imposing too much on the forum.  Thanks

    http://vimeo.com/26308104

     

    Although I'm illustrating this problem with only a couple of codecs here, it's global.  The only codecs I've found that work correctly are the very few with the name Avid (DNxHD, DV100, etc) and Animation.  Every other codec does not work, and none of them have the name Blackmagic or Matrox or Apple (with the exception of ProRes) attached to them.  Since I am using exactly the same process for each codec --and Avid codecs behave as expected-- I'm at a loss as to how I could possibly be doing this the wrong way.  I have repeatedly followed the instructions I keep being told to follow, with only one substitution: replacing AMA for the transcode import, and it DOES NOT WORK.  So either I'm a total idiot, or the instructions are incomplete, or my system has problems.  But I'm getting tired of feeling like I'm seen as the former when I'm fairly sure it's the latter.  If the performance I'm illustrating is the best that Avid can do with ProRes and every other industry standard format these days, then it's pretty much a useless system for me.

     

    I also continue to have sporadic major slowdowns (like 60 seconds of spinning ball to close a small bin), Memory Low errors when there is a huge amount of free RAM available, the inability to hide Media Composer (even by going to Finder and choosing Hide Others) when any process is occurring, and extremely slow opening of projects and quitting from Media Composer.  Perhaps some of those are normal expected behavior with AMA; I don't know.

     

    I am not a systems integrator; I'm an editor.  The initial tech support call is intended for system set-up.  That's why I called.  So far that's still not happening.  I've tried calling John, and will continue to try to reach him.

    2.7 GHz iMac Intel Core i5, 20GB RAM, G-Tech eSpeed RAIDs, AJA ioXT, ATTO Thunderlink, RED Rocket accelerator [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jul 12 2011 6:18 AM In reply to

    Re: A month of zero results from Tech Support

    scott auerbach:
    I'm getting tired
    Just trying to help, Scott, not here to annoy you.
    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jul 12 2011 6:32 AM In reply to

    • hbrock
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    Re: A month of zero results from Tech Support

    Scott,

    You might need something more than a phone consult.  You seem to have different experiences than the rest of us.  The only conclusion I can draw from this is that there is something else wrong that hasn't been discovered or that you have not done exactly what has been conveyed.  Another set of eyes and hands might be of more value than a phone conversation.

    MacPro, MacBook Pro and a Cube (masquerading as a kleenex dispenser). [view my complete system specs]

    Must think of something clever to go here...

  • Tue, Jul 12 2011 7:54 AM In reply to

    Re: A month of zero results from Tech Support

    I think that Scott can do a great service for Avid here. He is exactly the customer that Avid is targeting with the $995 promo: a serious FCP editor who is willing to give Avid a try and believe that Avid has changed.

    We can spout countless instances of Avid being new. We know the names of the management team and developers. A fair number of us have even met them in person. And a lot of us have had a specific request or two implemented. But all that means nothing to Scott.

    Avid worked hard enough to get back in the conversation. But it needs to actually win people over, not just get them to cough up a grand and pass. Yeah, short term Avid will get a fair amount from $1K cross-grades. But if those willing to try MC again leave with a bad taste in their mouths, then a whole new generation of editors will again say that Avid is not for them.

    I think the whole color levels issue INSIDE MC is simple as could be. Fast import as 601/709 and export as 601/709. You could round trip a million times and nothing is ever remapped and nothing will ever change. But that's not everyones workflow. Some formats can't be fast imported. Throw in AMA, ProRes, etc. and it can become a mess.

    And even with my K.I.S.S. approach, when it comes to making a QT that will play properly in QT Player, forget about it. VLC and some other alternative players work fine, but Quicktime Player is the goto .mov player. And Avid's QT's generally don't display properly on it. This needs to be addressed.

    I've read that Avid considers itself a Ferrari. I feel this is really not the case. I've ogled these cars at the Ferrari dealership on Wilshire Blvd, Beverly Hills. Everything is placed perfectly and it all seems to just work.

    MC's heritage is more like that of a long haul truck. There are jobs that it can do that no other vehicle in the world can accomplish. Running a newsroom, doing post for "The Dark Knight" and direct capture for "Avatar" are jobs for Avid.

    But continuing with the automotive analogy, there are certain tasks that an SUV or an F250 is much more suited for. Hauling wood from the lumber yard, going up a steep grade, picking the kids up, camping. These are like the editor who's using one computer to cut and finish their work (w/ maybe a few round trips to AE) for final delivery for the the web, QT, DVD & BD and maybe every so often lay back to tape.

    This is where Avid can fall short in a big way. And I've been saying this ever since I started using Avid. While MC has improved markedly over AXP, there are still quite a few rough edges that can nick you in ways that other NLE's don't.

    See a lot of us have grown so used to using MC that we don't even remember what it's like to look at it for the first time. Or we know the pitfalls to avoid so well that we don't even realize that they still exist. Or Avid works so well for our specific job, that the fact that it doesn't work well for something else isn't even on our radar.

    I hope that Avid embraces this thread and earnestly tries to learn from it. It is really a golden opportunity to work with an editor who understands FCP very well but is willing to try hard to make MC work. I sincerely hope that Avid officially jumps on this. Because while some of the problems in this thread are probably due to miscommunication, some very important ones are not. And Avid working to fix these issues will not only help Avid, it will help us all.

     

    P.S. I don't mean to diminish the dual FCP and Avid experience that many people here have. Or try to make it sound like I feel that Scott is somehow more important than any of us. I just feel that Scott seems to be exactly the type of customer that Avid is targeting. So this thread should get very due attention, IMHO.

    "When I spent 60k on a discreet edit digisuite system 10 years ago someone came up to me to offer fcp 2, I said it was a scam too." -Ric

  • Tue, Jul 12 2011 8:03 AM In reply to

    Re: A month of zero results from Tech Support

    BobbyMurcerFan:
    I hope that Avid embraces this thread
    BobbyMurcerFan:
    I sincerely hope that Avid officially jumps on this.
    That already happened some pages ago. Including a cell phone number.
    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jul 12 2011 8:11 AM In reply to

    Re: A month of zero results from Tech Support

    As much as I wish she were, Marianna is not Avid. She is the most awesome customer advocate ever on the planet. But she's not Avid. And I can't expect her to single handedly overcome whatever stasis might exist inside Avid.

    A lot of the issues mentioned in this thread have been mentioned for years and have gone close to nowhere, so I'm not entirely convinced that Avid is now going to fix them, or come up with adequate responses and workarounds.

    I hope they will, but I think it's fair to say that the jury is very much out.

    "When I spent 60k on a discreet edit digisuite system 10 years ago someone came up to me to offer fcp 2, I said it was a scam too." -Ric

  • Tue, Jul 12 2011 9:00 AM In reply to

    Re: A month of zero results from Tech Support

    BobbyMurcerFan:
    workarounds
    I think one has been given right here. Export in DNxHD, then use MPEG Streamclip to encode to H264 or ProRes apparently keeps the values correct.

    As said, I too hope Apple and Avid are working together on fixing the underlying issue.
    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jul 12 2011 9:18 AM In reply to

    Re: A month of zero results from Tech Support

    Job,

    A lot of good advice has been given here. No doubt. And I'll try that workaround to see if it will solve my own issues with creating QT's from MC that will play in QT Player. If it works, I'm all for it and I'm very thankful for it.

    But is that workaround really acceptable from Avid's POV? MC is supposed to be best of the best, cream of the crop. In many areas it certainly is. And in some it's lacking. Gary and Kirk are not editors, so they don't really know the pitfalls that the app has and how many workarounds we've grown accustomed to using.

    Perhaps they think it's fine that an extra transcode and a free program might be necessary to get a good playing QT out of MC. Or maybe they would be rather distressed to learn that such a seemingly simple task requires an extra encoding and a free software to try to do what MC can't.

    Workarounds are good, but I think we've all grown very accustomed to them. What Scott's posts provide is a reality check of how MC is seen from someone w/ fresh eyes. I'm not trying to make Scott out to be some kind of savior. I just think that he seems to fit the description of exactly the type of customer Avid is aiming for at the present time. And many of the issues he brings up are not new.

     

    P.S. Me too :).

    Job ter Burg:
    As said, I too hope Apple and Avid are working together on fixing the underlying issue.

    "When I spent 60k on a discreet edit digisuite system 10 years ago someone came up to me to offer fcp 2, I said it was a scam too." -Ric

  • Tue, Jul 12 2011 9:50 AM In reply to

    • tho_wi
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    Re: A month of zero results from Tech Support

    yes, seems to work okay.

    I've just tried some of Apple codecs:
    - ProRes
    - ProRes HQ
    - FCP uncompressed 8bit
    - Apple DVCPRO HD
    - Apple XDCA H422 50Mbits
    - Apple Intermediate

    workflow:
    - Source file in MC is DNxHD
    - export sequence as QT-Reference (rec709) (or as QT mov "same as source", rec709)
    - transcode through MPEG Streamclip (or through Quicktime - MPEG Streamclip utilizes the QT engine anyway)


    => files will look incorrectly viewed in QT Player (they are all displayed at fullswing)
    => the files opened in MC / linked through AMA look all okay and show the correct (TV!) levels in the waveform monitor

    maybe far from ideal, but at least it's doable for the time beeing…

    Direct QT export from MC works fine with all Avid codecs and at least with x264 (maybe also with other Non Apple Codecs)

    How to make QT display the files correctly ... I have no idea. QT doesn't even display ProRes (exported through QT itself) correctly.

    MC 6.5.3 & 7.0 . Matrox Mini . OS X 10.8.4 . 8x2.26GHz Nehalem . 24GB RAM . Radeon HD 5870 [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jul 12 2011 10:14 AM In reply to

    Re: A month of zero results from Tech Support

    Have a try with:

    Edit
    Preferences
    Quicktime Preferences
    Advanced tab
    Video: select Safe Mode
    CLOSE quicktime player

    try if it make a difference.. here on PC it does!

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  • Tue, Jul 12 2011 10:20 AM In reply to

    • mjolnarn
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    Re: A month of zero results from Tech Support

    tho_wi:

    How to make QT display the files correctly ... I have no idea. QT doesn't even display ProRes (exported through QT itself) correctly.

    Playing them with Matrox Vetura player watching them on a calibrated screen is my workflow, you need to have a Matrox Mini for that of course

     

    Mac: 17" Macbook Pro i7 2,66 ghz with 8Gb Ram, 500gb 7200rpm drive___ PC_NEW Win10 Pro Mbo Asus Rampage IV Black CPU Ivy Bridge-E 4960X ( = 12 x 4... [view my complete system specs]

    Tomas 

     

  • Tue, Jul 12 2011 10:39 AM In reply to

    • tho_wi
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    Re: A month of zero results from Tech Support

    editorbelga:

    Have a try with:

    Edit
    Preferences
    Quicktime Preferences
    Advanced tab
    Video: select Safe Mode
    CLOSE quicktime player

    try if it make a difference.. here on PC it does!

    Unfortunately on Mac I don't have those settings. I also don't have the said "enable FCP compatibilty" setting ...

    However, thanks for the suggestion!

     

    mjolnarn:

    tho_wi:

    How to make QT display the files correctly ... I have no idea. QT doesn't even display ProRes (exported through QT itself) correctly.

    Playing them with Matrox Vetura player watching them on a calibrated screen is my workflow, you need to have a Matrox Mini for that of course

    I do have a Mini recently and playback through Vetura Playback generally works just fine.

    However Scott's concern is how to display files correctly in QT as this is the de facto standard to playback mov files on a computer. But I think this could only be solved by Apple. As QT Pro is EOL'ed I doubt we will see a soltution here.

     

    MC 6.5.3 & 7.0 . Matrox Mini . OS X 10.8.4 . 8x2.26GHz Nehalem . 24GB RAM . Radeon HD 5870 [view my complete system specs]
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