Mercer:

I don't agree with Douglas (forgive me Douglas)

Nothing you said needs forgiveness, Mercer

Disagreeing is human. I'm human too......
I am certainly not infallible.

Regards,
Douglas

camoscato:

One thing doesn't automatically lead to the other.  If they could just unplug the HDV capture capability from Liquid and plug it into Media Composer and make it better I'm sure they would, but it's not that simple.

I understand this Carl, but having access to the underlying technology of another NLE; to see where and how it works for another program can and should of lead to improvements for MC. It works flawlessly in almost every other major NLE, it is just inexplicable why the best and greatest NLE cannot make HDV capture work properly unless they were never really that interested, seeing HDV as always prosummer. This could explain it but I believe it was a huge mistake.

Thanks Douglas you are a gent and that is why I always treat you as such.

 

 

BobbyMurcerFan:

Futhermore, Avid has settings that are supposed to allow for capturing across errors, real or imagined, and these settings rarely help.

That is, IMO, the central point.  If a product is supposed to do something, then it should.  If it doesn't then it should be fixed by the supplier of the product.

BobbyMurcerFan:

HDV capture is a joke and a mess for many of us. This issue has been brought up numerous times, but Avid ignores it. Here's a link to feature request I made almost two years ago:

http://community.avid.com/forums/t/70611.aspx?PageIndex=1

It has ignored this problem for SO LONG that it seems like Avid might be able to wait out the useful life of HDV. Which is a brilliant or horrible strategy depending on your POV.

2 years ago! Maybe i shouldn't be too hopeful of a fix.

 

John,

I know there has been a lot of talk about how AVID should work when it comes to HDV capture (but doesn't)...And... the solutions have been to use other capture software... however, I have found that among the "other" category of capture applications... Cineform works the best - from many perspectives.  When caputuring from Cineform, it maintains the metadata... works well with Adobe applications or AVID... and, you can actually efficiently edit with the Cineform codec through AMA linking... it has a nice slight gamma shift that comes in handy if you shoot flat (...the shift may be caused by the color space gain from 420 to 422 - don't really know)... CC with Cineform is a great... you can capture and convert mts files simultaniously into AVI or MOV (but, you must use MOV for AVID).  The downside to the Cineform codec is that size of the files... they are HUGE.

In a lot of ways... Cineform works similar to AVID's MXF files... but, is more universal in it's acceptance by editing applications and has very nice CC ability.  In fact, sometimes it is has such good quality associated with the files... that some systems have a hard time processing the quality level of the final output... which frequently means you have to reduce the kb per sec's to get Cineform to work with some video cards... but, this reduction almost always results in little loss in quality. 

I have never had Cineform not be able to capture HDV files... it has been hassle free and really a dream to use as a primary editing codec.  Unfortunately, AVID doesn't have an easy way to work with HD video in a proxy format (in general)... so, I am currently working on a new workflow that will allow me to use Cineform to MXF conversion as a proxy-like setup... which is a real time consuming pain... but, that limitation is caused by AVID... and, it is a limitation that a NLE like AVID shouldn't have for a professional level editing application.

Thanks for that joe.  I'll download the trail and check it out. :)

" it is a limitation that a NLE like AVID shouldn't have for a professional level editing application."

I agree 100%

The argument or lets face it - the excuse - that something does not work is because it is a professional app and is meant for professionals is nonsensical and misleading.

Other larger software vendors in the corporate world would be laughed out of town if that was their excuse. 

I really like Avid and the products, but lets be realistic, if something is broke its is broken, dont deny, hide or ignore - fix it and move on!

 

Hi all,

I specifically asked Avid what their position is regarding HDV, specifically if they think HDV is a dead format or not, and this is the response:

"Avid does not believe that HDV is a dead format. We are committed to providing quality products that continue to support HDV workflows. If there was ever a time Avid felt the need to cease development for HDV workflows, we would communicate these plans to our customers well in advance so that they have plenty of time to make appropriate adjustments prior to the change. Avid currently has no plans to abandon HDV support or development."

regards,
Carl 

Sounds good - will really look forward to seeing the developments (or fixes as thay might be called) in MC5

Cheers

SussexJohn:

It really would be good to be told that HDV capture IS on the tasklist.

….Hi SussexJohn: It isn't ! - And it should be ! HDV Canon 24 F along with plenty of HDV 59.94i is the bane of our existence. Avid Media Composer in 4.0.5.13 cannot capture @ 24 F Canon preset ! MC 4.0.5.13 can capture 1080 59.94i with the TC button enabled, but it's hit and miss sometimes with this format as well ! What a nightmare ! What a horror for us dealing with our HDV clients !

 

Mark Job

drbgaijin:

I really hope that HDV is not on the task list, because in my opinion  MC is working with it as it was designed....

Regards,
Douglas

Hi Douglas: With all due respect, I will agree to disagree with you dear friend ! Canon 24F or 23.976 over 59.94 Hz with 3:2 pull down removal was a spec from the very beginning of the HDV format announcements in 2004 - 2005. HDV 1 was the 720i & p spec, while HDV 2 provided for higher resolution and variable frame rates. I sincerely hope Avid *Finally resolves* to fix HDV capture once and for all after 6 years of promises to do so ! Full HDV support was promised as a free upgrade patch, but never actually delivered as such ! Remember ? We had to pay to get it by 3.5.x but it was only half baked and half ready when it arrived ! (Anger not directed at you ) The one camera preset mysteriously not listed in the deck configuration list is the Canon XL H1 model. Of all the HDV camcorders sold, the Canon XL H1 was purchased in more countries and is used by more digi-underground guerrilla film makers and for independent production than just about any other camera out there. 

Mark Job

 

BarkinMadd:

Anyway - Avid capture over firewire is definitely finicky compared to Premiere or Vegas - not sure why that would be. I know there are still lots of folk out there with Z1 and FX1 tape based cameras - good cameras - not going to drop another $5K because Avid has an issue with capture over firewire

Cheers

…..Right on brother !

 

camoscato:

To be fair, you're getting that second hand from a guy who recently gave Avid 60 days until he dumps them forever.

….That would be ME! So Carl, what am I ? Are you saying I'm a liar ? I just made it up ? I'm hallucinating and everything is well with Canon HDV 24 F capture ! This is what I was told to my face Sir !

Ciao !

Mark Job:

Hi Douglas: With all due respect, I will agree to disagree with you dear friend ! Canon 24F or 23.976 over 59.94 Hz with 3:2 pull down removal was a spec from the very beginning of the HDV format announcements in 2004 - 2005. HDV 1 was the 720i & p spec, while HDV 2 provided for higher resolution and variable frame rates.

I have no problems with that agreement to disagree, Job

In those days I had never even heard of Media Composer. In fact I had never even heard of Avid.

(Get ready for a loud cheer from the Liquid migrants..........) In fact I had just upgraded my FAST StudioDV to Liquid 6.0 for under 100usd.
Here is a quote from the information about it at that time: "There's also heavy attention paid to the new HDV format, bringing Edition's real time preview capabilities to even higher resolutions than ever. Here's a First Look at this new release, set to ship in October (2004)"
I had no problems with the firewire back then, and I am still having no problems with firewire capture today in MC.
But for some reason I seem to be having luck with my MC installs where others are having problems.... and vice versa.

For example, in the days I used Liquid I was told "Keep away from firewire cards using VIA chipsets. You MUST only use those with Texas Instruments chipsets!"
I have always followed that advice until about 2 months ago.
I installed MC5 on my home - all pupose - computer.
It works well (so far)
Then I wondered about capturing some tapes on this home computer.
I had no firewire on the cheap motherboard I had used, so I dug out a very old firewire card - plugged it into the slot on the motherboard..... and I could capture without a problem. That card has a VIA chipset! It works very well.

But all of the above is only an aside.

I really do hope that everyone who is having trouble capturing HDV (be it HDV1 or HDV2) can resolve their problems soon.

Regards,
Douglas

drbgaijin:

I really do hope that everyone who is having trouble capturing HDV (be it HDV1 or HDV2) can resolve their problems soon.

 

Hello Douglas :)

I really hope that AVID resolves the problems that so many people are having capturing HDV, as they promised to so do so long ago!

My kind regards

PS you'll see from my many posts that my learing curve continues upwards!

 

Hi Douglas:

                   No problem. Gottcha. I should like to clarify for the record, if I haven't done so already, (?) I have no difficulties capturing Canon HDV 1080i 59.94 Hz HDV tapes to MC. The specific point where MC capture of the HDV format falls apart is when one receives HDV cassettes recorded in Canon HDV camcorders @ Canon's 24 F speed (23.976 with 3:2 pull down removal). For yours truly, it is TC capture via firewire @ 24 F which simply is impossible. The only way to physically get the footage into MC is to crash record. This is no good for us. We must have client's source time code from their tapes.

Mark Job