Latest post Sat, Feb 26 2011 1:01 AM by hbrock. 18 replies.
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  • Tue, Jan 25 2011 10:55 PM

    • CaptBoo
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    MC5 to Premiere 5

    The books say this should be easy.  Has anyone actually done it?

    A low budget movie was shot using Canon DSLR 1080.  I want to edit it with MC5.  The client needs me to deliver it into Adobe Premiere CS5 (The "why" is long and convoluted.)  It seems to me that if the client provides me a drive with an exact copy of the original footage.  I can then edit it using AMA.  That would not transcode, alter or rename the clips.  All I do is export the sequence, have her import the sequence according to Premiere instructions and it would link to the original clips and it's all good.  Or am I just being silly?  Thanks.

    MC5.0.3, MacPro 3.2GHZ Quad-Core Intel Zenon, 8GB Memory [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jan 25 2011 11:11 PM In reply to

    • hbrock
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    Re: MC5 to Premiere 5

    Silly wold be to try editing the native DSLR media in Media Composer.  Chances are quite good that it won't play smoothly.  You can transcode the H.264 media into DNx media and then relink to the original sources by taking the DNx media offline and having all of your AMA bins open.  Now you'll have a final sequence tied to the original camera media...only you won't be able to export it without turning it into something else as you can't export long GOP (H.264) AMA sources without conversion into a non-long GOP codec.  Kind of a endless loop of "you can't get there from here"...  As long as they can accept a different codec, you should be OK.  If not, probably best to do the offline in Premiere CS5 which can play H.264 smoothly if you've got the proper hardware.

    MacPro, MacBook Pro and a Cube (masquerading as a kleenex dispenser). [view my complete system specs]

    Must think of something clever to go here...

  • Wed, Jan 26 2011 2:24 AM In reply to

    • CaptBoo
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    Re: MC5 to Premiere 5

    Thanks for the reply Howard, I hope you have time to give me a little more.  I am just returning to the biz after an extended leave.  This will be my first tapeless project.  I have about ten years working with Media composer and none working with Premiere.  I downloaded the MC5 trial and it was amazing how quickly my muscle memory got me editing.  I've looked at Premiere and the learning curve is just not worth it for me.

    I take it you are saying that MC5 does not work well with H.264.  The hype I read posted from around NAB time was that it would.

    I do not need to output a final product.  All I need it to do is output the sequence, get it into Premiere and get Premiere to relink with the H.264 original media so the producer can use that for final audio mix and sweetening, color correction and Blu-Ray burn.

    If I understand you, I take the H.264 originals, transcode to DNx, cut the project.  Since I don't have to export the project, the big question is, does the sequence retain the links to link back to the original footage?  If I'm reading you right the answer is yes.

    Any other thoughts you have to help a tape guy learn tapeless would be much appreciated.  Thanks again.

     

    Boo 

    MC5.0.3, MacPro 3.2GHZ Quad-Core Intel Zenon, 8GB Memory [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Jan 26 2011 8:07 AM In reply to

    • hbrock
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    Re: MC5 to Premiere 5

    The sequence will maintain the links back to the original footage and even relink to the original H.264 files...as long as you stay in the Avid.  I don't know what Premier is expecting in terms of relinking to the camera original files, but chances are that it's not going to be painless.  For example, I can tell you that you'll get different time code on the same clips if you use FCP and Avid as they both derive the fake time code in different ways.  But if the goal is to get something into Premiere for audio mixing, color correction and burning a Blu-Ray there are a number of codecs that would be better than H.264 for those tasks.  Actually, anything would be better than H.264.  Because long GOP codecs like H.264 need to re-create the Group of Pictures whenever you make a cut, you're not going to preserve much of anything by staying in H.264 and that's why using a intra-frame codec is a better solution.

    If the client insists on a H.264 sequence, transcode your original material to a high rate DNx format and convert the final sequence back to H.264 on output and give them what they asked for.  If the client insists on using the original H.264 files as sources for the final conform, you'll need to do some testing with a EDL, XML or some other conversion method to move sequence information between programs as well as figuring out how to link the original sources.

    MacPro, MacBook Pro and a Cube (masquerading as a kleenex dispenser). [view my complete system specs]

    Must think of something clever to go here...

  • Sun, Feb 20 2011 7:07 PM In reply to

    • CaptBoo
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    Re: MC5 to Premiere 5

    Okay, let's take this a different direction.  The goal is to take in H.264 files.  Edit on MC5.  Export the project along with 1:1 media and get Adobe projects to read it all as a project.  For now let's not worry about what Adobe can do.  Coming from a tape background, we would capture all the footage at a low resolution.  Make the edit.  Trash the low rez media.  Decompose the sequence.  Select the decomposed clips.  Batch capture only the parts used (with handles) at high rez and do a digital cut.

    I'm trying to figure out how to do something similar with a tapeless  project.  What would seem to work, but I'm not getting anywhere is:  Link to AMA files to bring all the footage into the Avid.  Select all the AMA files and transcode to DNx45.  Make the cut.  Trash the DNx45.  Decompose the sequence.  Select the decomposed clips.  Re-import (or transcode, whtever) at 1:1.  Relink.  I'm not finding anyway to re-import the selected decomposed clips.

    I have been able to trash the DNx45.  Select all the AMA files.  Transcode all of them at 1:1 and then relink.  But it sure would save a lot of time and space if I could just re-import the parts that are going to be in the movie (plus handles).  (By the way, it's all straight cuts, no dissolves or effects).

     

    Please tell me what I'm missing. 

    MC5.0.3, MacPro 3.2GHZ Quad-Core Intel Zenon, 8GB Memory [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Feb 20 2011 11:22 PM In reply to

    • hbrock
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    Re: MC5 to Premiere 5

    You're almost there.

    Relink the final sequence to the AMA files, decompose and transcode those clips to 1:1 (ugh) or whatever the client desires.  The decomposed trancoded clips should relink to the decomposed sequence.  Not sure what Premiere wants and how it will link clips, but you might want to look at this thread for some ideas:

    http://community.avid.com/forums/p/91220/537072.aspx#537072

    MacPro, MacBook Pro and a Cube (masquerading as a kleenex dispenser). [view my complete system specs]

    Must think of something clever to go here...

  • Sun, Feb 20 2011 11:32 PM In reply to

    • CaptBoo
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    Re: MC5 to Premiere 5

    Thanks Howard.  Okay, when you say "Relink the final sequence to the AMA files", I don't know exactly what you're talking about.  Please walk me through the steps.  I will read the attachment and if tells me, don't worry about answering.

     Why do you say ugh on 1:1.  Adobe supposedly read DNxHD.  Would you suggest a different format?

    MC5.0.3, MacPro 3.2GHZ Quad-Core Intel Zenon, 8GB Memory [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Feb 21 2011 4:00 AM In reply to

    • hbrock
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    Re: MC5 to Premiere 5

    Here are the steps:

    1.  Take the DNx media offline by renaming the Avid MediaFiles drive or ejecting that drive.

    2.  Open ALL of the AMA bins that have clips used in your final sequence.

    3.  Open the Relink dialogue.  Choose the "make a new sequence" option.

    4.  Relink.  If it doesn't work, select the Sequence as well as all of the AMA files and click on the "Relink to selected files in open bins".

    Now you should have a new sequence linked to the original camera files.  You can then transcode that new sequence.

    If they can take DNx, give them 115 or 175 and it will look every bit as good (or not) as the originals.  1:1 won't look any different but it will be much larger and won't play without high speed drives or a RAID.  But if it makes them happy....

    MacPro, MacBook Pro and a Cube (masquerading as a kleenex dispenser). [view my complete system specs]

    Must think of something clever to go here...

  • Tue, Feb 22 2011 11:07 PM In reply to

    • CaptBoo
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    Re: MC5 to Premiere 5

    Boy, I'm so close I can smell it.  Here's what I'm doing:

    Open new project for each scene.  1080/RGB709

    Link AMA to the scenes H.264 video files

    Transcode those files to DNx45

    Import .wav sound files

    Use autosync to create sub-clips with DNx45 pictures and .wav sound

    Edit the scene together (the easy part)

    Trash the DNx45 video files

    Put sequence, AMA links and .wav in the same folder

    Select everything in the folder and relink - Now I have a sequence that plays the H.264 and .wav directly

    Select sequence making sure all tracks are enabled. Export as .aaf, using enabled tracks, AAF edit protocol including all tracks in sequence.  Export method is consolidating media with 30 frame handle length.  Transcode to DNx220, media destination is external firewire drive.

    When I do this on a 3 cut test scene it exports fine.  I can open a new project and it plays perfectly with DNx220 picture and .wav sound.  However, when I do the exact same thing to a finished 25 cut scene, it goes through the process the same, transcoding the consolidated clips, but a the end I get:

    "Exception AFileMediaDesc::Unable to set a container type for media descriptor"

    It works perfectly on the three cut test and fails on the 25 cut scene.  I'm using the exact same footage files.  There are no effects or even dissolves.  Can anybody guess what's going on?  Thanks again.

     

    MC5.0.3, MacPro 3.2GHZ Quad-Core Intel Zenon, 8GB Memory [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Feb 23 2011 1:04 AM In reply to

    • hbrock
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    Re: MC5 to Premiere 5

    Couple of things:

    You can "trash" the DNx45 media by simply renaming the Avid MediaFiles folder.

    The Sequence and AMA files don't have to be in the same folder, they just have to be open and or selected (depending on which relink option you choose).  If your audio files came in as imports, they don't have to be relinked as they're already in a Avid Media format.

    I've always transcoded the final sequence before exporting a AAF, although your method should work just as well...except it doesn't.  I've had "mixed" experiences with AAF exports (excuse the pun).  If embedded is selected and audio only is supposed to be sent out, the files are huge.  If AAF edit protocol isn't selected, you could run up against the 2 GB file limit.  I've had better luck sending the media to a folder containing the AAF and the media.  Someday it won't be such a mystery to me...maybe someone can enlighten us about the do's and don'ts of AAF.

    MacPro, MacBook Pro and a Cube (masquerading as a kleenex dispenser). [view my complete system specs]

    Must think of something clever to go here...

  • Wed, Feb 23 2011 1:46 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5 to Premiere 5

    Not tried going from MC to Premiere but have thried the otehr way and it was a nightmare.

    My conclussion and my working practice for Premiere is:

    If you need Premiere start in it and finish in it. If you do that life will be far simpler. You may even get the job done.

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hosted Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

  • Wed, Feb 23 2011 2:52 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5 to Premiere 5

    Premiere v5?  I thought that was barely capable of handling DV footage.  I remember only being able to capture about 8 mins at a time because of 2 GB limitations etc.  

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Wed, Feb 23 2011 3:24 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5 to Premiere 5

    Kenton.VanNatten:

    Premiere v5?  I thought that was barely capable of handling DV footage.  I remember only being able to capture about 8 mins at a time because of 2 GB limitations etc.  

    Isn't that just a file system limitation?

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hosted Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

  • Wed, Feb 23 2011 5:01 PM In reply to

    • CaptBoo
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    Re: MC5 to Premiere 5

    Just to follow-up, and totally forgetting about the Premiere part of the equation, just trying to export .aaf and open it back up in Avid.  The scene that I was trying to export is 3:20.  If I "use marks" I can export all but the last shot, so 3:12 exports just fine.  I don't know yet whether it is a function of the length of the project, or something in that last shot or what.  I deleted that shot, it wouldn't export, I replaced the shot it wouldn't export.  Maybe something else in the scene.  I can't find a consistency.

    I've exported two other scenes so so, both less than 3 minutes and they went fine.

    Tomorrow we'll try the Adobe part of the equation.  I'll post again if I learn anything.  Thanks to all of you and especially Howard for getting this old man this far.

    MC5.0.3, MacPro 3.2GHZ Quad-Core Intel Zenon, 8GB Memory [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Feb 23 2011 5:48 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5 to Premiere 5

    Pat Horridge:

    Kenton.VanNatten:

    Premiere v5?  I thought that was barely capable of handling DV footage.  I remember only being able to capture about 8 mins at a time because of 2 GB limitations etc.  

     

    Isn't that just a file system limitation?

     

    Yes, because I was having to capture everything through a DVRaptor as .avi.  But my main point was that I was using Premiere v5.x circa 1998.  I'm going to assume that the OP is talking about the version of Premiere that is included in the CS5 bundle and not actually Premiere "5"  

     

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

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