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  • Sun, Feb 6 2011 8:08 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5 interface settings gone?

    switthaus:
    After release, Mods could talk with more authority on why decisions were made, etc.

    That seems to be a very sensitive and perhaps sore spot for Avid corporate, and I doubt very much they would be happy with or allow me to comment in that area.

     

    Newscutter Nitris DX 9.5.3.5 * Media Composer 5.5.3.6 (At Home on PC running XP Pro) * Symphony 6.5.2.1 (At home on MacBook Pro3,1 running 10.7.2) * Interplay... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

    Senior Editor

    The Pentagon Channel

    www.pentagonchannel.mil

  • Sun, Feb 6 2011 8:13 PM In reply to

    • switthaus
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    Re: MC5 interface settings gone?

    Mark Job:
    Hi Larry: I don't really understand why Scott Switthaus called your moderatorship into question ?

    Mark - please don't try to start trouble where there is none.  Larry is a highly respected Moderator and I have not called anything into question.  If you just want to start problems, there are other forums you can do that on (and probably be moderated off of).

    Scott Witthaus

    Owner/Editor/Post Production Supervisor 1708 Editorial

    http://vimeopro.com/1708editorial/1708-editorial

  • Sun, Feb 6 2011 8:15 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5 interface settings gone?

    switthaus:

    Brickwad:
    t's too bad that Larry and other mods can't be consulted during the planning stages of a feature revision.

    There is one:  it's called the beta program.  Even if experienced Mods like Larry could give 2 hours every other day or so to check on their workflow would be invaluable.

    And if that participation in a Beta test program for Avid would require me to obtain a new computer platform to meet the changing system requirements, who's going to pay for that, Scott?

     

    Newscutter Nitris DX 9.5.3.5 * Media Composer 5.5.3.6 (At Home on PC running XP Pro) * Symphony 6.5.2.1 (At home on MacBook Pro3,1 running 10.7.2) * Interplay... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

    Senior Editor

    The Pentagon Channel

    www.pentagonchannel.mil

  • Sun, Feb 6 2011 8:27 PM In reply to

    • Mark Job
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    Re: MC5 interface settings gone?

    switthaus:
    Mark - please don't try to start trouble where there is none.  Larry is a highly respected Moderator and I have not called anything into question.  If you just want to start problems, there are other forums you can do that on (and probably be moderated off of).
    Scott: Sorry, I got the impression from reading your post that you were somehow not happy with Larry. If I am in error, than I do most humbly apologize. I'm not trying to pick a fight. I wish you could see my facial expressions and note my body language when I post, and then you would know I'm not trying to be a total donkey here ! I guess my words are too direct and I may come across too harshly to some of the readers. I'm actually not trying to be so - it's just how I write. I never was one to be very PC if you know what I mean ?

    Respectfully,

    Mark Job

    HP nw 9440 ISV Certified Workstation with nVidia Quaddro FX 1500 M w/512 MB of on board GDDR 3 RAM GPU, 2.16 GHz Core 2 Duo CPU, 100 GB 7200 RPM HDD, 4... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Feb 6 2011 8:40 PM In reply to

    • Brickwad
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    Re: MC5 interface settings gone?

    Larry Rubin:

    switthaus:

    Brickwad:
    t's too bad that Larry and other mods can't be consulted during the planning stages of a feature revision.

    There is one:  it's called the beta program.  Even if experienced Mods like Larry could give 2 hours every other day or so to check on their workflow would be invaluable.

    And if that participation in a Beta test program for Avid would require me to obtain a new computer platform to meet the changing system requirements, who's going to pay for that, Scott?

     

     

    I'm talking about something like the following:

     

    Date: January 10, 2010

    From: Media Composer Deveopment Team

    To: Avid Community Forum Moderators

    Hi Mods,

    We're thinking of doing away with simple keyframes altogether in our next new release.  Effects editor would default to advanced keyframes only. We wanted to run this by all of you, to see if you think it's as great of an idea as we do! Keep in mind, your NDA applies here . . .

    Thanks!

     

    1 MC4 Nitris DX on 12 core 2.66 mac pro 6 Gigs of Ram, 2 Symphony Nitris DX on eight core mac pro with 12 gig ram, 3 MC7 on Mac Pro, IMAC, and Macbook... [view my complete system specs]

    WWLD?

  • Sun, Feb 6 2011 8:55 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5 interface settings gone?

    Brickwad:

    I'm talking about something like the following:

     

    Date: January 10, 2010

    From: Media Composer Deveopment Team

    To: Avid Community Forum Moderators

    Hi Mods,

    We're thinking of doing away with simple keyframes altogether in our next new release.  Effects editor would default to advanced keyframes only. We wanted to run this by all of you, to see if you think it's as great of an idea as we do! Keep in mind, your NDA applies here . . .

    Thanks!

    I would be more than happy to participate in that type of feedback scenario, as it falls in the category of design consulting that I alluded to earlier. As opposed to Beta testing, that participation would not require me to incur additional hardware expenditures.

    Newscutter Nitris DX 9.5.3.5 * Media Composer 5.5.3.6 (At Home on PC running XP Pro) * Symphony 6.5.2.1 (At home on MacBook Pro3,1 running 10.7.2) * Interplay... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

    Senior Editor

    The Pentagon Channel

    www.pentagonchannel.mil

  • Sun, Feb 6 2011 8:59 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5 interface settings gone?

    That's good.

    I hope at the next 10 years they will realise that the way MC handles the mattes is UNACCEPTABLE.

    Causing titles or many overlays as FX's being useless having them or using them.

    Also the titling options are limited to the 70's even compared to amatyer NLEs.

    And of course audio keyframing/handling is almost none.

    Adding to that the Smart Tool behaviour and we are done.

    Media Composer changes but too SLOW!!!

     

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  • Sun, Feb 6 2011 9:11 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5 interface settings gone?

    switthaus:
    After release, Mods could talk with more authority on why decisions were made, etc.

    Scott, I do see some validity in the essence of your point. There are some practical issues, though. Time being a major factor for most of us. Also, don't forget that beta testing is more than just liking or disliking features, it is about test driving the software in the real world, to see if nothing is broken. That takes time, flexibility and resources that not everyone can spare. So I'm with Larry on that.

    But, as a moderator, it also sounds like a tricky place to be in.

    passionate user 1:
    How can you guys have let this or that feature pass like this?

    betatesting moderator x:
    We have no influence on what is actually released or not.

    passionate user 1:
    But you should have pointed out that this is totally unacceptable! Didn't you try hard enough? Who's responsible? Let the CEO come forward and explain!

    betatesting moderator x:
    Well, yes, and perhaps I shouldn't go there, but, as a matter of fact, during beta I made a pretty big point about precisely that feature; although I get the idea, I didn't like the way it was implemented. And I told them so.

    passionate user 1:
    How come Avid don't listen to its moderators? I'm taking another look at FCP!

    betatesting moderator x:
    I'm guessing not everybody agreed with me, or there may have been other reasons to roll it out this month. I don't see the bigger picture any better than anyone else here.

    passionate user 1:
    If not you, then who were the idiots on the beta team that were OK with this piece of cr*p?! I'm switching to Premiere Pro tomorrow!

    betatesting moderator y:
    Please calm down and be civil.

    passionate user 1:
    I am being civil, you're just trying to shut up anyone that is being negative about this buggy software that this arrogant company overcharges us for, probably to save your own bacon. P.S. All the big ad agencies in my town are now on Vegas!

    ...etc.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Feb 6 2011 9:20 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5 interface settings gone?

    Good point, Job.  I'd be happy to give my feedback about features, but I don't want to take a lot of static from users about why we're all now using advanced keyframes all the time, and static there most surely would be.  Smile

    ciao,
    Carl 

    Media Composer 2024.6 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 64gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Blackmagic UltraStudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Sun, Feb 6 2011 9:23 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5 interface settings gone?

    camoscato:
    I'd be happy to give my feedback about features

    Same here. I might even sign up for a Beta program some time, moderator or not, static or no static. But requiring Beta program enrolling for moderators is a different thing and may have nasty consequences.

     

    But again, I'm not trying to totally dismiss Scott's point.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Feb 6 2011 9:42 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    • ! Avid Employee
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    Re: MC5 interface settings gone?

    camoscato:
    why we're all now using advanced keyframes all the time

    This is just an aside! Not intended to start another direction of the present discussion.
    But I LIKE the advanced keyframe mode without having first and last keyframes in place!
    When there was the option of "Promote to Advanced Keyframes" and "Automatically add start and end key frames" - I ALWAYS had the "Automatic start and end keyframes" turned OFF and I always promoted to advanced keyframes. So today's development saves me a split second. But that is just me.Geeked

    I would not have any problems if the choice were put back in, as I already had gotten used to them, and as many of you have good reasons to have them back.

    As far as the current discussion goes, I agree with what the other moderators are saying. Yes
    Main stumbling blocks are TIME and having a certified computer that is kept up to date for testing on.

    Regards,
    Douglas

     

    Sr. Director | Customer Experience and Community [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Feb 6 2011 9:47 PM In reply to

    • TVJohn
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    Re: MC5 interface settings gone?

    It does not help that MC's hardware requirements are so specific. IMHO that limits the sort of real world exposure and usage that many end users operate in, and further limits the potential customer (and Beta tester) base.

    I can say that testing for a now discontinued product was much less demanding of a Beta tester. As a result a very wide swath of people participated, and it believe the end result was a very stable and robust release.

    If Avid wants to attract a wider clientele, they are going to have to expand the circle of people testing. This was abundantly clear when one of the patches broke HDV capture. It would seem that no one testing was running HDV and Windows 7.

    Dell Display U2713HM(2560x1440), AMD FX8350 8core, AMD 990FX mobo, 32gig-DDR3-1600, GTX 3060Ti, Audigy2zs, 1TB SSD system drive, 2TB SATA render, 8TB SATA... [view my complete system specs]

    Using MC 23.12. Win 22H2  Avid FX6.4, Vegas Pro 20/ DVD Architect 6pro, DVDit6.4proHD, CCE Basic, TmpGe Express4, TmpGe Authoring Works 4, DVDLab-Studio. Sony EX-1R, Canon XH-A1, GL2, GL1, Canon EOS 60D

  • Sun, Feb 6 2011 9:53 PM In reply to

    Re: MC5 interface settings gone?

    TVJohn:
    It does not help that MC's hardware requirements are so specific.
    I bet there are plenty of sites out there beta testing on more than just the supported hardware.

    TVJohn:
    they are going to have to expand the circle of people testing. This was abundantly clear when one of the patches broke HDV capture.

    But now you are confusing matters. Patches don't go through the elaborate testing that regular releases do (as is stated very clearly on the patch download pages). So the conclusion that the group of beta testers is too narrow, based on THAT particular patch (x.0.3.6) is not a logical one.

    Now I'm not disagreeing that raising the quality of the patches would be...most helpful, to say the least. But let's not blame the quality of patches on assumptions about the width of the beta program.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Feb 6 2011 10:13 PM In reply to

    • TVJohn
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    Re: MC5 interface settings gone?

    The released quality of a software product should be proportional to the testing process both in scope and scale. I believe it either is a reflection of the two factors mentioned, or a case of influence from marketing or management that overrides the recommendations put forth by the technicial people.

    Yes, I do not know the complete process of QC and UI feedback that runs in-house. I form opinions on what I do see.

    Dell Display U2713HM(2560x1440), AMD FX8350 8core, AMD 990FX mobo, 32gig-DDR3-1600, GTX 3060Ti, Audigy2zs, 1TB SSD system drive, 2TB SATA render, 8TB SATA... [view my complete system specs]

    Using MC 23.12. Win 22H2  Avid FX6.4, Vegas Pro 20/ DVD Architect 6pro, DVDit6.4proHD, CCE Basic, TmpGe Express4, TmpGe Authoring Works 4, DVDLab-Studio. Sony EX-1R, Canon XH-A1, GL2, GL1, Canon EOS 60D

  • Sun, Feb 6 2011 10:38 PM In reply to

    • Joe M
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    Re: MC5 interface settings gone?

    Randall L Rike:

    "... the thought of losing that account may throw the fear of god into them! ..."

    You'd be surprised.  For many of us in broadcast, we use not only the Avid editing products, but also their storage, and maybe more importantly, Interplay products, e.g.,  Interplay Indexer, Interplay Transfer, and also broacast specific products, e.g., AirSpeed, and other direct-to-air systems.  The Avid editing apps feed directly into these.  "Dumping" Avid isn't as easy as you'd think.

    ... interesting and correct... but, to depend upon this a your business model for future success can be a dangerous proposition.

    This sort of reminds of a strategy taken by a few major security firms some 20-30 yrs. ago.  They had inhouse managed mutual funds that were not transferable... the only way to move away from the inhouse management was to sell and realize losses or gains in order to get away/transfer from the inhouse managed fund.  From a client standpoint... that doesn't give warm fuzzy feelings especially if the money manager is loosing money... and, from a longer term perspective... this idea will most likely not be successful (and, (in general) it was not sucessful).

    So... basically AVID doesn't just sale an Editing Process... they sell a whole package... that (in turn) holds the client at a future financial gun point to keep them as the client's primary editing application and process.

    I may not be a genious... but, it seems like having a useful and price competitive application that is liked by the customer is waaay better than using a form of extortion to keeps it's customer base... that would seem to me as a better business model to use.

    That beings said... I think AVID realized this... when... with MC5... decided the world did not revolve around AVID's video codec, hardware, etc. ... and, allowed for cross-use of various aspects of MC with it's competitors.  In effect, with FCP and Adobe PP's encroachment on AVID market share... AVID finally decided to give up on it's attempt to monopolize the market.

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    .

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