Job ter Burg:

Mark Job:

I need a proper compressor in MC for one.

You can easily get one for RTAS. There's a very affordable brickwall limiter from Massey plugins for example, as well as a CT4 compressor and some more stuff.

                      I'm not up on my Avid abbreviations today, so can you expand a little as to what RTAS and CT4 mean ? I'm following your compressor link now. Thanks for the heads up on the compressor info.

Mark Job:

You have to agree that the DVD output workflow is kind of klunky at best. It's half baked and half ready. We are 3/4 of the way out of MC to a proper client Blu-ray DVD delivery but not quite.

I have burned thousands of DVD's from Avid, originally starting before I joined these forums years ago. It has always been straight forward. I brought one of the first Blu Ray burners sold and that process is a straight forward progression of the DVD process.

RANT warning

IMO as with most things IF you really want to do anything then easy ways will present themselves. IF you want anytyhing to work the way you think it should you will often be dissatisfied.

lunelson:

jiggyjay:

All these complaints i'm hearing from MC4 users are just like the complaints I hear from Liquid users.. So why not just tell them to adapt to MC5 as well instead of urging Avid to change it?

There's a difference between switching and upgrading.

Snip

Well... there should be... but for some reason AVID decided that this was not to be the case with the MC4 to MC5 upgrade.

To get back to what I thought was the mine and jiggy's original post was this...

There are certain UI functions that Liquid had that could be very beneificial to Avid users.  And,... regardless of where these UI advantages come from... it should definately be consider as a part of MC now or in the future (For example... and first on my list of suggestions was Background Rendering).

For that matter, I can think of a few Adobe UI's that should be implemented into Avid MC... for example, the entire Premier Pro's UI is far more flexible and more intuitive than MC's... unfortunately, PP is not near as stable of an NLE platform... which basically makes it a substandard editing application no matter how pretty the book cover.

Joe

AndrewAction:

RANT warning

So now I'm ranting ? Thanks. What is straight forward about a DVD application, which sometimes stalls in authoring a Blu-ray disk when you try to burn a Blu-ray volume ? I'm not ranting. Frankly, I resent your assertion my customer feedback about the difficulties I'm experiencing with an Avid application which functions in conjunction within the MC application itself (M1 Track ?) is a rant. All you've done is express the idea that it works for you. Great ! Well, it doesn't  work for me.

Hi Joe,

Joe M:

regardless of where these UI advantages come from... it should definately be consider as a part of MC now or in the future (For example... and first on my list of suggestions was Background Rendering).

Background rendering (as I understand it) isn't an interface thing, it's more of a feature.  It would be cool if Media Composer had it, though.

Joe M:

Premier Pro's UI is far more flexible and more intuitive than MC's...

"Flexible" and "intuitive" are not objective characteristics.  

ciao,
Carl 

AndrewAction:

RANT warning

IMO as with most things IF you really want to do anything then easy ways will present themselves. IF you want anytyhing to work the way you think it should you will often be dissatisfied.

Mark, I believe Andrew meant that his statement following the warning is his rant. He's not accusing you of ranting.

Joe M:

the entire Premier Pro's UI is far more flexible and more intuitive than MC's...

In my case after analysing 25 odd "NLE's" around at the time I brought Avid BECAUSE is was the only option that was intuitive to me as an editor. 

And again in my case PP CS4 rarely gets used because it is so counter intuative (TO ME) and that is as aregular Adobe user from Photoshop 1 through all versions of Illustrator and Indesign.

Different strokes (intuitions) for different folks. 

Mark Job:

AndrewAction:

RANT warning

So now I'm ranting ? Thanks.

Take it down a notch; "rant warning" means the person typing the message is about to rant.  It wasn't directed at you.

ciao,
Carl 

Joe M:

There are certain UI functions that Liquid had that could be very beneificial to Avid users. 

As far as I can tell, no one here veteran or new, is arguing against functions that benefit.  We, the veteran users, are complaining about the changes that don't add anything to the product or changes that have actually taken away from a simpler usage.  Color picker being one in particular.  

If background rendering worked and didn't interfere with what I want to do, then I'd welcome it in a heartbeat.  But, consider how inconvenient it is that AMA automatically mounts a Bin for any network share that contains a QT file on it whenever you connect to it and you can understand why adding some new major function like Background Rendering might make some of us a little gun shy.  

And your point about Premiere being a pretty to look at but substandard editor also can be an argument for why doesn't/shouldn't need to really make the interface pretty, but concentrate more on adding functionality and features that we want.  

Kenton.VanNatten:

If background rendering worked and didn't interfere with what I want to do, then I'd welcome it in a heartbeat.

My features request a long time ago was for a separate "render farm" that the rendering could be sent out to and allow the editor to continue editing in the Composer application with no adverse affect on speed and momentum. When the rendering is completed, the render farm would alert the editor that the job is finished.

AndrewAction:

Mark Job:

You have to agree that the DVD output workflow is kind of klunky at best. It's half baked and half ready. We are 3/4 of the way out of MC to a proper client Blu-ray DVD delivery but not quite.

A point I would strongly have to disagree with from my perspective

I have burned thousands of DVD's from Avid, originally starting before I joined these forums years ago. It has always been straight forward. I brought one of the first Blu Ray burners sold and that process is a straight forward progression of the DVD process.

Mark,

I concur with what Anndrew says.

I have never found any problems in getting material out of MC and into AvidDVD.
(Before that I used Sonic DVDitProHD (basically the same as AvidDVD) No problems there either when I was using Pinnacle Liquid.
I have done countless DVDs and BluRays from Liquid and now from MC without any problems.
I have even made about 20 tutorials on the topic. Never had to edit out anything that had failed when making them.

However, I am not calling you a liar. I quite believe that you may be having problems with AvidDVD. Quite a few people do have problems. Usually they can be traced to a fault in their workflow or to another application that has installed some codecs which conflict with AvidDVDs processes.

Also I did not interpret Andrew's "RANT warning" as meaning that you were ranting. I read it as Andrew had finished with HIS rant.

Maybe we can take a look at your AvidDVD problems at a later date and see if I can do anything to help.

Regards,
Douglas

Kenton.VanNatten:

Joe M:

There are certain UI functions that Liquid had that could be very beneificial to Avid users. 

As far as I can tell, no one here veteran or new, is arguing against functions that benefit.  We, the veteran users, are complaining about the changes that don't add anything to the product or changes that have actually taken away from a simpler usage.  Color picker being one in particular.  

If background rendering worked and didn't interfere with what I want to do, then I'd welcome it in a heartbeat.  But, consider how inconvenient it is that AMA automatically mounts a Bin for any network share that contains a QT file on it whenever you connect to it and you can understand why adding some new major function like Background Rendering might make some of us a little gun shy.  

And your point about Premiere being a pretty to look at but substandard editor also can be an argument for why doesn't/shouldn't need to really make the interface pretty, but concentrate more on adding functionality and features that we want.  

I for one would love for MC to have a one mouse click liquid snap shot equivalent in MC... plus, have a simple search function to find effects... and, actually be able to only drag and drop an effect into a nested clip... there shouldn't be the need to use the ctl key to do this.  And, I really think most MC users would find it useful and not interfere with there workflow... unless, simplification is a concept of interference.  Reducing keystokes, establishing a search function for effects or making more functions a drop down menu driven UI should not be a negative... but, from I can tell from the old guard MC users... I wouldn't bet money on this assumption.

All that being said, I think with the introduction of the ST... AVID is announcing a UI change that will definately make it more FCP (or perhaps Adobe) like... and the key reasoning is to compete with these applications.  Unfortunately, I think they produced half the results toward this goal... and.... now, have a UI that still doesn't appeal to FCP (or perhaps Adobe) users... while at the same time dissappointed the old guard of MC users.  

Perhaps the next upgrade will consolidate this issue and make AVID more competitive.... and, if they listen to their existing users they could actually have a better application AND produce a more user friendly UI.  That should be the ultimate goal of AVID.  Until then... being gun shy will probably become the norm with future AVID MC developments in the near term.

Joe M:

Until then... being gun shy will probably become the norm with future AVID MC developments in the near term.

Joe M:

To get back to what I thought was the mine and jiggy's original post was this...

Joe, in all fairness this thread was started by HamNCheese!

Your original post where you listed some of your pluses and minuses was on topic, but subsequent posts began the "MC should take things from Liquid....." OT discussion. If you want to talk about what is great in Liquid , please do that in the thread I started over in the MC for Liquid users area, or suggest them in the "Features Request" area. This thread is not about Liquid!

That said, I agree with Larry and the others that new ideas , no matter where they come from, are always welcome. But there is a time and a place, and this is neither the time nor the place.

Also I cannot understand why some Liquid migrants think that MC users live in some sort of backwater and that they, the Liquid migrants, are some sort of saviour who has unheard of knowledge that no MC user has ever heard about or thought about.

I think that over the years MC users have requested everything you are suggesting. The problem is that Avid seems to be spending its time developing unrequested changes, rather than working through the long list of long standing requests from the editors who have kept MC alive over the years by paying a lot of money to Avid.

Regards,
Douglas

drbgaijin:

The problem is that Avid seems to be spending its time developing unrequested changes, rather than working through the long list of long standing requests from the editors who have kept MC alive over the years by paying a lot of money to Avid.

That is indeed a core issue of our dissatisfaction with Avid's performance, and why some of us have trouble believing that Avid is listening and has a new way of thinking. We have heard the words and promises from Avid that great things are coming for a very long time. With all due respect to the people at Avid, we need to see the actions that back up those words. And very high on that list is uninterrupted playback when entering other commands in the interface, a complaint made continuously almost from Avid day one.