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  • Wed, Aug 25 2010 3:41 AM

    • Marianna
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    MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    The following post is a report on my findings on the new function introduced with the patch 5.0.3.1.
    The ReadMe says:

    Support for Exporting Long-GOP QuickTime Reference Movies


    Avid now supports exporting Long-GOP QuickTime Reference movies through our Export
    process. For information on how to export QuickTime movies, see “Exporting QuickTIme
    Movies” and “Export Settings: QuickTIme Reference Options” in the Help.


    If you want to play the exported movie in QuickTime, you need to purchase a third-party
    QuickTime plug-in. Avid recommends the Calibrated{Q} XD Decode from Calibrated
    Software: http://www.calibratedsoftware.com/. You can also play the exported movie directly
    in Final Cut Pro.

    Before I list my findings, I would ask readers to respect my wish to keep this thread for comments on my findings.
    I have not mentioned Squeeze in my findings, as I do not use it.
    There is already a thread discussing the problems with Squeeze.

    1. I did various exports of QT-ref files from MC 5.0.3.1.

    2. I repeated them with MC 4.0.4 and MC 5.0.0 for reference purposes.

    3. MC 5.0.3.1 did export a timeline sequence containing HDV 1080i clips, without the usual "Long GOP error" appearing.

    4. I also exported some QT-ref files from the same sequence - BUT I created a video mixdown first. Using my normal workflow.

    5. I imported all of the QT-ref files into AvidDVD and the Media folder looked like this:

     

    As you can see the QT-ref files from The HDV material (to the right) do not show the correct thumbnails.

    6. I added a QT-ref from the HDV clips to the Movie assets and it appeared as a white screen.

    7. The QT-refs from MIxdowned clips showed correctly.

    8. By scrubbing the timeline I could get the QT-ref from the HDV clips to appear in the video window. But it did not actually playback.

    9. The MixedDown source QT-refs played as usual.

    10. I also tried importing an HDV Qt-ref into Sonic Cinevision. That worked. But here, as in AvidDVD, I could only get partial appearance of the actual video. So it was also unuseable.

     

    My conclusions?

    11. MC 5.0.3.1 can export a QT-reference from HDV clips - but they are unuseable, for the present, in AvidDVD.

    12. MC 5.0.3.1 will still export useable QT-reference files if you do a MixDown first.

    13. For my existing workflow everything works as before.

    Too bad it is not working correctly with the direct export of HDV clips - yet.

     

    The suggested extra codecs for playback of the new QT-ref files does not appeal to me.
    I am Scottish and the codecs cost money!

    Also, from what I hear, the new codecs may not actually help solve the problems of importing the QT references files into AvidDVD.

    Regards,
    Douglas

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  • Wed, Aug 25 2010 6:36 PM In reply to

    • touviere7
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    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    very interesting indeed!

    thank you very much, douglas, for all your experimentations.

    been holding off on 5.0.3 for now, so unable to confirm :-(

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  • Thu, Aug 26 2010 11:41 AM In reply to

    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    Thank You, good research!

     

    Bert.

    Asus P8P67 / Intel Core i5 2500 / 8GB / Windows 7 prof 64 bit/ PNY Nvidia quadro 600/ MC 5.5 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Aug 26 2010 1:52 PM In reply to

    • MattB
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    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    Douglas, Do you expect that it would work if you had the reccommended 3rd party decoder installed?

    MattB

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  • Thu, Aug 26 2010 2:57 PM In reply to

    • cuervo
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    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    I am working on a PC platform; and, I can say, having purchased the recommended codecs from Calibrated, that indeed the QTRef files that are generated, without a prior mixdown, directly from the XDCAM files, are readable. In fact, they are playable and readable by any video software that has access to the codec.

     

    The issue, AFAIK, is that the generated QTRef files are formatted for Quicktime on a MAC. The software is needed on the PC side to enable a PC to read the MAC formatted files. I have never been able to play back MXF files generated by Media Composer and stored in the Media Composer Files folder. After installation of the Calibrated codec, I am now able to playbeack these files in Quicktime.

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  • Thu, Aug 26 2010 3:25 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    cuervo:
    The issue, AFAIK, is that the generated QTRef files are formatted for Quicktime on a MAC. The software is needed on the PC side to enable a PC to read the MAC formatted files.

    Thanks for the information, Bill.

    Too bad that when working with the PC version of MC that the generated QT-ref files cannot be re-used directly in other PC applications that can usually import QT-ref files.

    As I said earlier, however, it doesn't affect my workflow, as I always include a mixdown at the end of my workflow.

    Having to buy extra codecs to make a new feature work fully in the PC version of MC goes against my Scottish roots Geeked

    Regards,
    Douglas

    Director of Online Communities and Forums/Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]

    marianna.montague@avid.com

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  • Thu, Aug 26 2010 3:34 PM In reply to

    • cuervo
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    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    drbgaijin:

     

    Having to buy extra codecs to make a new feature work fully in the PC version of MC goes against my Scottish roots Geeked

    Regards,
    Douglas

    No arguments from me, Douglas, I understand, completely. To add insult to injury on the purchase of these codecs from Calibrated, they license the use of their codecs on one PC only. One cannot transfer the license to other machines! I'm afraid my hispanic upbringing makes me more impulsive than rational. :)

     

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  • Thu, Aug 26 2010 3:43 PM In reply to

    • Mercer
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    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    I respect you doing these tests but I would suggest it was a foregone conclusion that without the 3rd party plug in it would not work. You even quote the recommendation from the Avid Readme.

    I know it's a bit galling to have to pay extra (and I think that plugin is overpriced) but I automatically assumed as much when I saw the new feature.

    Anyway thanks for doing the test.

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  • Thu, Aug 26 2010 10:58 PM In reply to

    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    Have you tried to being these files into Sorenson Squeeze 6?  I just tried and Sorenson Squeeze locks up when trying to import.  The source material is HDV, opens fine in Quicktime Player.  It also appeared to work in Avid DVD (but I didn't try making a DVD).

    Kane Peterson
    VTP

  • Fri, Aug 27 2010 12:51 AM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    Hello Kane, and welcome to the Forums.

    kane_vtp:
    Have you tried to being these files into Sorenson Squeeze 6?


    No I haven't.
    As I said in my first post in this thread, I do not use Squeeze.

    kane_vtp:
    The source material is HDV, opens fine in Quicktime Player.  It also appeared to work in Avid DVD

    That is interesting.
    However as I cannot see anything about your system specifications about your setup I am unable to comment further.

    When you imported the QT-reference files into AvidDVD, did the icons/thumbnails look like the ones to the left or to the right in my screenshot in my first post?
    What version of AvidDVD are you using.

    Could the imported QT-refs. playback correctly in AvidDVD?

     

    Regards,
    Douglas

    Director of Online Communities and Forums/Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]

    marianna.montague@avid.com

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  • Fri, Aug 27 2010 1:20 AM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    Hello Mercer,

    I do not agree with your foregone conclusions in this case.
    But I am not complaining about your conclusions, I am complaining about Avid's "almost great new feature".

    Here are my reasons:

    Support for Exporting Long-GOP QuickTime Reference Movies

    Fine, that holds true. I can export LongGOP movies.

    For information on how to export QuickTime movies, see “Exporting QuickTIme
    Movies” and “Export Settings: QuickTIme Reference Options” in the Help.

    I have checked out both of the mentioned tips.

    There is NO mention of any extra codecs being needed in the Help guide.
    The following can be read however,

    QuickTime Reference is available from the Export As menu in the Export Settings dialog box. This option is similar to Same as Source, but your Avid editing application links to the original media files. This is the fastest method of export, but the movie can only be run or processed on your local system or in an Avid Unity workgroup environment. If you want to transfer a QuickTime movie to another system, you must also move the associated media files by creating a self-contained QuickTime movie.
    This is as it always has been.
    It still works like this if I do a video Mixdown of the Long GOP sequence first. The Help goes on to say:
    A set of Avid codecs for QuickTime are installed automatically when you install your Avid editing application. You can use these codecs to export QuickTime files from your Avid system, or to export QuickTime files from third-party applications for fast import into an Avid system
    So no mention of any changes as far as the new function goes.
    Back to the Patch ReadMe:


    If you want to play the exported movie in QuickTime, you need to purchase a third-party
    QuickTime plug-in. Avid recommends the Calibrated{Q} XD Decode from Calibrated
    Software: http://www.calibratedsoftware.com/. You can also play the exported movie directly
    in Final Cut Pro.

    For me this says "If you want to PLAY the exported movie in Quicktime"

    Fair enough, but what if I want to IMPORT the QT reference into a 3rd Party application?

    I am sorry, but I hope that this problem is just an error which will be addressed in a future patch.

    Finally, and for me the two most important points at the moment.

    Avid suggests purchasing and installing yet another codec.

    I know from bitter experience that AvidDVD is not very happy when it meets new codecs.
    New codecs can cause problems.
    I rely on both Avid DVD and Sonic BD Powerstation.
    I am not about to jeapordise their functions by installing an extra codec which could well create problems. Not only that, I would be paying to be allowed to create the problems.
    Also I run 3 setups with different AvidDVD and BD Powerstation setups.
    I would have to pay 3 times to use the new function.

    Regards,
    Douglas

    Director of Online Communities and Forums/Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]

    marianna.montague@avid.com

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  • Fri, Aug 27 2010 3:33 AM In reply to

    • TVJohn
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    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    At times, the Apple slant can be somewhat irksome to PC users. From Quicktime and its aversion to mpeg, to the support of non Quadro ($$$) cards on the Apple platform, a PC user seems like a second thought.

    As Apple is using ATI as OEM these days, expect to see more official support for these products as installed in Macs.

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  • Fri, Aug 27 2010 12:15 PM In reply to

    • Mercer
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    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    Hi Douglas,

    I understand what you mean and please don't think I was in way trying to be rude.

    What I meant to say was that 'playback' is a bit of a misnomer because if Quicktime is unable to decode the reference movie it will also follow that any other programmes reliant on it will not be able to use it, e.g. if Mpegstreamclip can't decode (i.e playback) a file it will fail to transcode. This is why it requires a (paid for) Mpeg plug-in from Apple.

    What it does mean is that without the decoder plug-in you can now, at least, export a quicktime reference that could be used on another platform that has the necessary decoder (of course all reference media will need to accompany the file too!)

    I suppose it is a little misleading (or unclear text) of Avid in that respect but as I say playback is really synonymous with decode as far as a pc is concerned and this is why I considered it a foregone conclusion.

    As I say I think the plug-in concerned is overpriced, $20 would be more reasonable.

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  • Fri, Aug 27 2010 1:26 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    Mercer:

    Hi Douglas,

    I understand what you mean and please don't think I was in way trying to be rude.

    No problems, Mercer, I didn't think you were being rude.

    My gripe is that Avids ReadMe refers to the Help.
    In the help there is no mention of the need for an extra codec. In fact there is no mention in the help at all about the new function.
    If a QT reference file made from a mixed down LongGOP source can be imported into e.g. AvidDVD without any extra codecs....... why couldn't they have made the direct exported QT ref file from the LongGOP clip also be compatible?
    A mixdown is transcoding the Long GOP to a DNxHD codec...... so why couldn't the new function use that same DNxHD codec - instead of a codec which many of us PC users do not have?

    But life goes on.... let's not get stuck in a rut. At least Avid is listening and trying Yes

    Regards,
    Douglas

     

     

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  • Sat, Aug 28 2010 12:42 AM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: MC 5.0.3.1 and the new Quicktime Reference export possibility

    drbgaijin:
    A mixdown is transcoding the Long GOP to a DNxHD codec...... so why couldn't the new function use that same DNxHD codec - instead of a codec which many of us PC users do not have?

    I am now beginning to believe that Avid has a legitimate reason for providing this QT-ref export option (with its seemingly restrictive use) at this point in time.
    However, until I know more about it, it would be pure speculation on my part to suggest the reason.
    Regards,
    Douglas


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    marianna.montague@avid.com

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