Randall L Rike:

http://community.avid.com/forums/t/85356.aspx?PageIndex=4

Well firstly, that post was just a statement of various assumptions, which are not reasonably explained. The ideas that the previous behaviour was "outdated" and "needed to change", and even that it was "non-standard" are not really founded in any evidence. There are no absolute rules concerning how and which modifier keys should affect cursor functions, and there are many applications including Final Cut Pro which make use of the CTRL as part of their standard key combinations.

Notwithstanding that however, the real problem is that the new solution is self-contradictory and illogical, as I explained on more than one occasion but specifically here:

http://community.avid.com/forums/p/85356/500705.aspx#500705

That was back in the late summer when I still believed this thread was a conversation...but FWIW there it is and those points have not been addressed.

 

You are right. The use of shift, alt and cntrl keys when slip and slide trimming still needs to be addressed.

The same problem exists on the PC side as well as the Mac, we just use the Alt key instead of the Command key. We still have the same inconsistencies with Shift and Cntrl.

Paddywack:

You are right. The use of shift, alt and cntrl keys when slip and slide trimming still needs to be addressed.

The conflict with the shift key and slide selections is being addressed in a future patch release.

 

fcapria:

The conflict with the shift key and slide selections is being addressed in a future patch release.

Thanks

Any chance of mappable buttons to enter slip and slide mode directly?

fcapria:

I also challenge you to find another software company that would hold such a candid and frank discussion in a public forum. 

In all honesty (and no disrespect meant), Red's Reduser.net forum meets that challenge by quite a respectable margin. The CEO has 5,855 posts averaging 4.07 per day. One of their lead developers has 4,195 posts averaging 2.92 per day. For better or worse, LOL, some of those conversations can turn quite contentious at times.

And Red's RedCine-X software has some color grading features that put MC's native interface and CC tools to shame.

AndrewAction:

fcapria:

The conflict with the shift key and slide selections is being addressed in a future patch release.

Thanks

Any chance of mappable buttons to enter slip and slide mode directly?

 

I am also waiting for the day when I can use the keyboard to quickly cycle a bunch of highlighted, segment-mode clips into my choice of Slip trim mode, or into Slide trim mode and then back to their original highlighted state. (so that I can add to or subtract from my selection of highlighted clips and do nudges) And I want to do it without a mouse because...

Re-lassoing with different modifier combos to cycle trim modes is just too cumbersome when it involves a complicated multi-track, multi-clip lassos.

The tantalizing thing is that MC was almost there! In MC3 (on a pc), I was able to press the Trim mode key (which is mappable) in order to change a bunch of highlighted clips into Slip trim mode. When I was done with my Slip trim, pressing the same Trim Mode button would return the bunch of clips back to its highlighted segment mode state. That was perfect....almost.

All I needed was a way to do the same thing, but with my bunch of clips going into Slide trim mode. I thought by pressing Alt+the Trim mode button it would work, but it didn't. None of the modifiers combos would. Ughhhh!

The only tool that offered a glimmer of hope was the mouse's right-click, context-sensitive SLIDE tool. Sadly, whenever I tried that, the bunch of clips that were already in Slip mode drpped to a single clip in Slide mode. Ughhhh! Plus, it required using the mouse and it wasn't mappable anyway.

I've only tested MC5 during a trial in July and I know that various patches have since been released-- what is the current state of multi-clip Slip and Slide mode trimming?

Why do I want this so badly? I believe that it would offer the maximum flexibility and inter-activity for bearing down on the perfect trim or perfect edit. I'd also like "Play Loop" to function on highlighted clips as it does when in trim mode. (right now if you are in segment mode, it just plays from the blue bar).

Soon we'll find out what's in the latest MC5 patch. Please consider adding this kind of advanced multi-clip, trim cycle capability in the very near future. Thanks for listening...

Well, I actually have an ANSWER to this question....you're just not going to like it.  The question being, "Why suddenly change some control-key functions in MC5?"

I worked at Avid Technology for 2 years testing the software, and helping with the design of the UI. The answer is "just because".  The most frustrating thing I had to deal with while working there (and there were MANY) was Changing things that simply did not have to be changed, ie: change for change sake, rather than improvement.  I saw this time and time again while working there.  Fortunately during my tenure I curtailed all the unnecessary changes that I could.  I stopped them from changing "digitize" to "capture"...then some years after I left...they changed it anyway.

Will they change it back because thousands of Avid Users are negatively affected by the many bad changes in MC 5?

Probably not.  But it can't hurt to keep these comments going.  I believe at least ONE person at Avid Technology READS these posts, and if they see enough of them, maybe something will happen.  Here's to hoping.

Editor363636:

...was Changing things that simply did not have to be changed, ie: change for change sake, rather than improvement.

If true, this confirms what many of us have suspected for quite a long time. How very sad and profoundly disappointing.

BobbyMurcerFan:

fcapria:

I also challenge you to find another software company that would hold such a candid and frank discussion in a public forum. 

In all honesty (and no disrespect meant), Red's Reduser.net forum meets that challenge by quite a respectable margin. The CEO has 5,855 posts averaging 4.07 per day. One of their lead developers has 4,195 posts averaging 2.92 per day. For better or worse, LOL, some of those conversations can turn quite contentious at times.

And Red's RedCine-X software has some color grading features that put MC's native interface and CC tools to shame.

 

I just wanted to add that some people may think the comparison to Red is unfair. Well a comparison to Adobe shouldn't be.

Adobe engineers are actually all over the web on places like DVInfo, DVXUser and RedUser. Here's an example of the discourse. (You will be happy to know that this thread is asking Adobe to add a feature that MC already has ;).)

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/adobe-creative-suite/488733-ppro-vs-avid-sound-scrubbing-question.html

But Adobe seem to have adopted "New Thinking" for themselves and run with it quite far. By comparison, the Chat with Avid forum has been shut down. Avid engineers and reps are again rarely posting or replying, save in the DS forum, the long promised face lift to Product Features has never materialized, even Marianna is sighted less and less.

I've read that Avid is doing additional cost cutting, which must put even more stress on everyone there. And I feel sorry for them.

I also do wish Avid had listened to its customers years ago, then some of the pain being felt today may not be as severe. I don't think Avid "holing up"--if that's what's going on--is going to help this community or the company.

But to answer the challenge posed, Red > Adobe > Avid > Apple in terms of candid and frequent dialog.

Editor363636:

change for change sake

This is indeed what this change feels like to editors who use the Control-key countless times every single day.

And here's a related thread that deals with an anomaly of the Control key to Command + Shift paradigm.

Thanks Larry, I saw that thread after I read Editor363636's post and read his other posts.

Good to see another voice added to this; but as he also implied: how many will it take before they listen?

I think one can fairly say that for most of Avid's long lifetime they have been "ahead of their times"; but if there is one thing about them today, that is an absolute DINOSAUR it is this attitude of "we know best". Editor363636' view seems to confirm our worst intuitions as you say.

I keep hoping for some miraculous enlightenment to befall them and that they will reconcile all this nonsense in version 5.1, then I can finally move up from 4.0.5.13 which is practically flawless. I'll have to write to Santa Claus about that I suppose.

Larry Rubin:

Editor363636:

...was Changing things that simply did not have to be changed, ie: change for change sake , rather than improvement.

If true, this confirms what many of us have suspected for quite a long time. How very sad and profoundly disappointing.

And I feel it's more sad then ever because about 2-3 years ago it seemed that Avid finally understood that this "communication arrogance" problem needed to be dealt with to get back in the game and try to become a profitable market leader again.

I got the impression that Avid wanted a synergy between an already good product (MC 2.x/MC3.0) and better communication to make MC fit to all our needs and keep in step with new technological and other market developments.

Maybe the goal is still the same and I think it is fair to say they have achieved a lot the last 2 years, but Avid seems to no longer believe better communication is part of the solution in achieving their goals.  

jveekeres:

Avid seems to no longer believe better communication is part of the solution in achieving their goals.

What's important to Avid is the perception that they listen to their customers.  They will spend the next 5 months polishing their presentation for NAB 2011 so they can reinforce the idea that they listen to their customers.   And everybody thinks that Apple is stronger at marketing?   Avid deserves an A+ for the "We're Listening" campaign we've been eating up over the last couple of years.  If there were any truth to advertising Avid's new campaign would proclaim, "MC is just like FCP more than ever, c'mon over".

I'm sad to say that I'm not really surprised by this.  The writing has been on the wall for quite some time now. I think back and just shake my head over the way I used to defend Avid against all naysayers right here on these boards. When "New Thinking" and MC3 came out, I was as giddy as a school girl.  It took me this long to realize that it's the same old stuff, different slogan. It's a crying shame, because to this day I still believe MC4 is the best editor I've ever used. I can't use MC5. They've taken away functions that I use literally hundreds of times a day. What they've done just knocks the air right out of me . . .