Latest post Thu, Jan 21 2010 10:01 AM by Jayanta. 14 replies.
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  • Wed, Sep 2 2009 10:46 AM

    A Novel Idea

    How about having Avid be the first NLE to natively support Red Rocket?

    I just spent a few hours at a professional colorist's studio in Hollywood. Red has really invaded the market place. I asked about Avid and he said he gets some Avid material but the vast majority is from FCPS.

    Apple has made quite a name for itself in the Red world. If Avid were the first NLE to support Red Rocket, that would go some way to dispell those feelings.

    "When I spent 60k on a discreet edit digisuite system 10 years ago someone came up to me to offer fcp 2, I said it was a scam too." -Ric

  • Wed, Sep 2 2009 11:16 AM In reply to

    • NICKB
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    Re: A Novel Idea

    Avid DS as of yesterdays release now supports the RED SDK so i assume Red Rocket.

     

    You can of course use Avid for offline and HD tv workflow if you transcode to DnX, full RED workflow is expensive for the TV market on tight budgets.

  • Fri, Sep 4 2009 2:05 AM In reply to

    • MichaelP
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    Re: A Novel Idea

    RED ROCKET acelerated the debayer process for the full 4K frame. Media Composer doe not have a 4K frame size. So DS could take advnatage of it, as well as MetaFuze which is being looked into now. There is still addiitonal workflow issues is that the card only decodes a single stream. What happens in the case of a dissolve? Layer. VFX? A render must happen. And since the camera is the only device that can create R3D, you are rendering to another format - which mow means a LUT for that format. As you can see, things can get complex rather quickly when you move beyond the straight cut type composition.

     

    I would also bet that most of that FCP edited material was done from a transcode to ProRes. A render to ProRes is the same workflow as a render to DNxHD. For some reason, many people think that going to ProRes is still native.

     

    Michael

    24p.com

  • Fri, Sep 4 2009 7:27 AM In reply to

    Re: A Novel Idea

    Michael, reading back on post, I can see how it could be a little unclear. I'm aware that MC and Symphony don't have 2 or 4K frame sizes or 4:4:4 color depth so they can't work w/ R3D natively. So I wasn't posting that MC and Symphony should be able to work w/ RedRocket to natively edit R3D. That's a huge undertaking that I wouldn't so glibly suggest.

    I was/am referring to having MetaFuze take advantage of RedRocket (which is why I posted this in the MetaFuze forum).

    I just feel it would send a strong message to be able to say that AVID (via MetaFuze) is the first NLE to take advantage of RedRocket.

    And you are absolutely correct, that the FCP material given to this post house is ProRes. Which is exactly why I think getting MetaFuze to work with RedRocket ASAP would be to Avid's benefit. Because Avid's transcode to DNxHD would be faster than the transcode to ProRes.

    "When I spent 60k on a discreet edit digisuite system 10 years ago someone came up to me to offer fcp 2, I said it was a scam too." -Ric

  • Fri, Sep 4 2009 6:55 PM In reply to

    • MichaelP
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    Re: A Novel Idea

    Then we're both saying the same thing. Smile

    We have a RED ROCKET in house and development is moving along on it. There are also some other interesting things happening we will speak to when ready.

     

    Michael

    24p.com

  • Tue, Sep 8 2009 6:59 AM In reply to

    Re: A Novel Idea

    Actually, DS has been supporting the RED SDK for a while now. I believe it was the previous release 10.1 that introduced RED support.

    Igor Ridanovic

    www.HDhead.com

    Filed under: ,
  • Tue, Sep 8 2009 7:03 AM In reply to

    Re: A Novel Idea

    I think the value of your idea is in generating the notion that Avid plays well with RED.

     

    On the practical side, you can setup several MetaFuze servers for the price of RED Rocket. Such render farm could debayer RED faster than real time. It would be just plain faster than RED Rocket.

    Igor Ridanovic

    www.HDhead.com

    Filed under: ,
  • Tue, Sep 8 2009 8:39 AM In reply to

    Re: A Novel Idea

    Igor Ridanovic:
    On the practical side, you can setup several MetaFuze servers for the price of RED Rocket.

    The thing is: i would not have a clue how to set such a thing up. I've never been involved in any networking beyond my Lanshare.

    Any tips where to start reading up on how to set up render farms? What server machines would you recommend using for that?

    Because of my infamiliarity with render farms, my gut feeling would make me go for a one-system solution (possibly with something like Red Rocket).

     

    Thanks.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Sep 14 2009 9:23 PM In reply to

    • DylanReeve
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    Re: A Novel Idea

    Render farms are tricky beasts.

    Unfortunately there's no straight answers - every application's render has it's own quirks.

    The general challenges are:
    - Managing the renders to ensure all necessary frames/clips are rendered.
    - Ensuring all necessary assets are available to all render nodes.
    - Consistent settings/environment.
    - Collectiong finished results in a single place.

    In Metafuze the transcode is handled on a clip by clip basis, meaning that you basically gather together a collection of computers to each render full clips until everything is done. Evert render node has to have access to the source R3D files (or other source), the information needed to do the transcode (settings basically) and somewhere to put the finished clip.

    To centralise this you then have each render node access the R3D file over a network share from a single location. And to simplify the gathering process with the end product you then get each node to render back to a network path - however this can introduce perfomance problems, as the bitrates we're talking about could quite easily swamp the network and slow everything down.

    My app is aimed to manage the job contol - ensuring that render nodes are given work to do, and that results are tracked, but the other complications remain just that, complicated.

    In terms of choosing hardware - well it depends on what you're rendering. Ideally you build/buy computers that are reach a good balance between performance and cost. Typically you're looking for processor power and RAM, and for some applications graphics hardware is a consideration. Typically I'd say $200-300 per node should be plenty (not including operating system).

    Various systems - including HP Z440 and Z840 workstations Media Composer 2018 [view my complete system specs]

    Dylan Reeve - Edit Geek // Online/Offline Editor // Post Production Supervisor
    Auckland, New Zealand

     

  • Mon, Sep 21 2009 5:01 PM In reply to

    • balue
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    Re: A Novel Idea

    Hi there!

    I would like to have a single workstation equipped with plenty of storage, meta fuze and a red rocked card to take the system wherever the shooting takes place. With that setup i could create offline mxf files for editing on site! We have many clients that would be more then happy with this sort of digital film lab!

    in an ideal world i would buy a dvs clipster, but if budgets are tight, a simple XW8600 with SAS raid should just be fine!

    So, if metafuze could take advantage of the red rocket renderpower ......

    ..... a man can dream!

    symphony nitris 4.0 XW8400, MC Adrenaline 3.5.4 XW8400, MC MOJO SDI 3.5.4 XW8200, MC MOJO 3.1 XW8000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jan 18 2010 9:38 PM In reply to

    Re: A Novel Idea

    balue:

    Hi there!

    I would like to have a single workstation equipped with plenty of storage, meta fuze and a red rocked card to take the system wherever the shooting takes place. With that setup i could create offline mxf files for editing on site! We have many clients that would be more then happy with this sort of digital film lab!

    in an ideal world i would buy a dvs clipster, but if budgets are tight, a simple XW8600 with SAS raid should just be fine!

    So, if metafuze could take advantage of the red rocket renderpower ......

    ..... a man can dream!

    Well the dream has become a reality. Michael and folks deserve a huge round of applause!

    "When I spent 60k on a discreet edit digisuite system 10 years ago someone came up to me to offer fcp 2, I said it was a scam too." -Ric

  • Thu, Jan 21 2010 4:18 AM In reply to

    • Jayanta
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    Re: A Novel Idea

    If AMA could be implemented for R3D in MC and Symphomy it will be welcome.

    All Sorts of System as I am a freelance Editor [view my complete system specs]

    "Out of mud the lovely Lotus Blooms, Out of Strife something higher vies "

  • Thu, Jan 21 2010 8:54 AM In reply to

    Re: A Novel Idea

    Since AMA appears to be deisgned for instant realtime playback, that would only work if the R3D files somehow could be played back (debayered, color space converted and rescaled to working resolution) on the fly.

     

    For now, MetaFuze is pretty nice, since it can take away the processing from your main editing system.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Jan 21 2010 8:55 AM In reply to

    Re: A Novel Idea

    balue:
    if metafuze could take advantage of the red rocket renderpower
    It does now.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Jan 21 2010 10:01 AM In reply to

    • Jayanta
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    Re: A Novel Idea

    Job ter Burg:
    Since AMA appears to be deisgned for instant realtime playback, that would only work if the R3D files somehow could be played back (debayered, color space converted and rescaled to working resolution) on the fly.

    I think Vegas works with RED footage somewhat  on this line, It has also implemented the new color science.

    http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=36838

    Adobe is also implementing something called th Mercury Player.

    Yes I agree Metafuze is OK for the time being. I want it more intuitive and better integration with MC.

     

    For EXample ( Just my two cents)

    ME: Hey Metafuze I have some files to transcode !

    Metafuze :well OK wher are the Files show me the Path:

    Me: Hey metafuze here is the Path (Browse)

    Metafuze : Well you have this many folder and this many files select or deslect  the files you want transcoded;

    Me: Metafuze The files are selected for transcode Proceed with the transcode

    Metafuze: Well in what Quality do you want it Debayered specify

    Me : Well Metafuze I have specified the Debayer Quality:

    Metafuze:  Thank You Do you want to do an Ofline or Online Edit ? For online select a lowes DNxHD bit rate for Online selext a High DNxHD bit rate:

    Me: Well Metafuze I hve selected the Transcode rates. Proceed with the Transcode.

    Metafuze: Where do you want to Keep Your Files Shoe the Path:

    Me: Metafuze here is the Drive number.

    Metafuze : There is a AvidMediaFilesFolder in this Drive it is recomended that you transcode to the sub folder numbered 1... 2... 3....etc Transcode to an existing folder or Create a new folder

    Me :Create a new folder

    Metafuze :Well the folder has been Created. Do you want transcode using the host or render using a network.

    Me: Trancode using the Host.

    Metafuze: Metafuze is Trancoding please wait while Metafuze is Trancoding. Yhis job will be finshed in as Many hours.

    ........................................................................................................................................................................

    ..................... after long long time

    Metafuze: Well Metafuze has Finished the Job and is tired! Do you want an ALE or do you want to exit

                    Warning: An ALE can be very helpful for Edit Job because it keeps the Metadata of Your  RAW files   as well as theTranscodes.

    Me: Thank You I want an ALE.

    Metafuze: Here is your ALE Do You want to Save the Project and exist .

    Me: Yes Thank You

    Metafuze: Metafuze is exiting: If you want to Convert Your ALE or EDL of the RED Project to DPX or TIFF Consult my Brothe (Metafuze Ape Extract. Thank You For Working Wth us.

    Me: Thank You Very Much.Stick out tongueBig SmileGeeked

     

     

     

     

     

     

    All Sorts of System as I am a freelance Editor [view my complete system specs]

    "Out of mud the lovely Lotus Blooms, Out of Strife something higher vies "

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