Latest post Fri, Jun 12 2009 1:28 PM by Marianna. 28 replies.
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  • Thu, Jun 11 2009 9:31 PM In reply to

    Re: MC vs Liquid...Why not COMBINE?

    You know all the things in the world better than me.

    I just know Premiere and of course Liquid better than you.

    And if we go to Liquid I may be years in front.

    You may be just ahead with MC but I will catch you in the new season coming.

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    Larry as long as I live I will remember you.

     

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  • Thu, Jun 11 2009 10:03 PM In reply to

    Re: MC vs Liquid...Why not COMBINE?

    You know all the things in,,,,     ....in front.

    You may be just ahead with MC but I will catch you in the new season coming.

     

    .- I don't know how old are you, but I'm old enough to be easily the father of 70% of the members of the Forum.

    When Avid came out to the public, in 1991, I already was an editor, a broadcast engineer and a SONY service technician.

    I've been using Avid since it came out.

    Avid Liquid? Please...

    I used the "Fast machine" extensively, long before it was Pinnacle, long before it was Avid.

    I still own a Pinnacle Edition 5.

     

     

    Lenovo E32 ThinkStation Intel Xeon E3-1245,16GB RAM, Nvidia Quadro 600 (1 GB), Windows 10 Pro x64 (up to date) USB 3.0, Lite-On SSD 256GB System Drive... [view my complete system specs]

    Remembering my friend Larry Rubin

    "Art can't exist without Craft"

  • Thu, Jun 11 2009 10:08 PM In reply to

    Re: MC vs Liquid...Why not COMBINE?

    OK then you know everything better than me.

    I also worked with a VideoMachine in 1995 when it was Fast and very expensive.

    It was controlling only deck to deck. The effects were rendering in PC.

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    Larry as long as I live I will remember you.

     

    3 Heads Digital Films

  • Thu, Jun 11 2009 10:49 PM In reply to

    Re: MC vs Liquid...Why not COMBINE?

    .- I worked with FAST Video machine 2, with Autodesk's Pro Animator Ver 1.3.

    The video machine 2 had video capture.

    Also worked with the Pinnacle Aladdin and Genie switchers.

    OH! the Video toaster!

    Avid was a Non linear system from the beginning.

    I still remember when the "humongous" (and super expensive) 9Gb SCSI Avid hard drives came out, back in 1999.

    Lenovo E32 ThinkStation Intel Xeon E3-1245,16GB RAM, Nvidia Quadro 600 (1 GB), Windows 10 Pro x64 (up to date) USB 3.0, Lite-On SSD 256GB System Drive... [view my complete system specs]

    Remembering my friend Larry Rubin

    "Art can't exist without Craft"

  • Thu, Jun 11 2009 10:55 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: MC vs Liquid...Why not COMBINE?

    Viewing this topis from faraway Japan, I can see there are 2 factors involved.

    1. Certain feature requests. e.g. VOB/mpg import. Feature requests are a positive way to help developers get new ideas and inspiration.

    2. The bigger factor - Human nature!  This factor is difficult to deal with.

    If Avid had run a campaign to get e.g. Vegas users over to MC, and many Vegas users had taken up the offer, we would find that this Forum would be pelted by posts from Vegas users who were suggesting merging the best parts of Vegas with MC. (No "does Vegas have best parts?" comments please Smile )

    Humans tend to believe in the things they are familiar with and are unhappy with new things, until they take time to explore them and have them around long enough to become familiar with them too.

    Sverkalo (George) I hope you don't mind me using you as a very good example of an enthusiast who is also a very normal human being. I am not ridiculing you - it is just that you have clearly shown this trait over the past 2 years. Geeked so please, don't get mad at me.

    While George was still a 110% ardent Liquid fan, he wrote the following on the Pinnacle Forum:

    October 22nd, 2007, "For me the upgrade path to Media Composer is 1 euro I won't go because it really looks bad to me"

    March 17th, 2008. "Media Management of MC is worse than anything I have ever seen"

    March 20th, 2008, "And I repeat again many of us are future NextGem customers not MC's"

    May 26th, 2008. "MC timeline is really weird"

    Then George bought MC! Lo and behold I saw the following not so long ago, on this Forum:

    May 27th, 2009. "The behaviour of the best editor in the world is unacceptable to that matter....." (bold text added by me, Douglas)

    It is this Human factor that is being mixed with cold sober Feature requests. This can lead to confusion.

    I came from Liquid.
    If you look back to the beginning of 2008 you will find some posts I wrote where I said something like this:

    If you have chosen to move from Liquid to MC, and you want to use MC to its full potential, you must leave Liquid and its workflows behind!  Close the door on Liquid and get into MC. Read the MC manual. Play with MC. Experiment with MC. But don't try and drag your old editing workflows into MC.

    Of course, it is your choice. But as long as you straddle the fence you are going to feel pain in your groins!!

    To those of you who believe in mixing the two - I would quote an old english phrase, "Jack of all trades - Master of none"

    Now I will leave this thread and get on with some more tutorials to help those who want to get into MC and learn more about how to use what it has............

    Regards,
    Douglas

    PS. Once again George, please don't get mad at me for using you as a very good example of entusiasm that can swing completely with the course of time.

    Director of CSM | Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Jun 11 2009 10:55 PM In reply to

    Re: MC vs Liquid...Why not COMBINE?

    Still Premiere isn't a good NLE for me.

    Douglas,

    yes this is the human behavior.

    Changing over time.

    Heraclitus said that best.

    "the world is not to be identified with any particular substance, but rather with an ongoing process governed by a law of change"

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    Larry as long as I live I will remember you.

     

    3 Heads Digital Films

  • Fri, Jun 12 2009 3:00 AM In reply to

    • dew
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    Re: MC vs Liquid...Why not COMBINE?

    Douglas I agree with you 100% you can't use MC like Liquid but there is nothing wrong with improving MC with some of the features that others have been asking for, espically since these features are all ready in Liquid. MC evolving is not a bad thing. Keep up with the times or get left behind. They have made FCP available for uniity servers right, so why night make new features for the NLE.

  • Fri, Jun 12 2009 7:02 AM In reply to

    • Sylvain P
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    Re: MC vs Liquid...Why not COMBINE?

    In my case, I don't think I have to close the door on Liquid to learn MC.

    Yes I took the upgrade from Liquid to MC. But I learned Xpress (Meridian) way before Liquid! In 2000. And learned before that Premiere. And after that FCP!

    So, when learning many NLE, you are learning how to edit, and not just a particular workflow.

    I am still using Liquid. I do some projects in Liquid and others in MC.

    So, I agree to put the best of Liquid in MC. And there is many feature requests in this sense in the feature request forum.

     

    Media Composer 2018.12.2 (Symphony Option), ASUS P8P67 Deluxe, Intel i7 2600k, 16G DDR3-1600, PNY NVIDIA Quadro 2000 (353.82), Windows 10 Pro. Boris Red... [view my complete system specs]

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  • Fri, Jun 12 2009 8:07 AM In reply to

    • adamsonn
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    Re: MC vs Liquid...Why not COMBINE?

    Sylvain P:
    In my case, I don't think I have to close the door on Liquid to learn MC.

    I agree with this as well, so whilst I really do enjoy MC3 and find it a great application to work on. I also work on AL7.2 extensively as it is a capable and professional editing app as well.

    Leaving FCP and Premier aside because they are not really relevant to this discussion, both MC3 and AL7 are solid products and each have their strong points and weak points.

    But AL7 is owned by Avid and it is end of life and as such I think that it would be a waste of valuable IP for Avid devleopers not to look at taking what they can out of AL7 and using it to make MC3 a better product.

    They bought it, they may as well sweat it. (even if it is just a concept rather than physical code).

    I am not fussed by UI changes - UI's change all the time and to ramp up to a new one is not a major issue for me.

    Certainly I would not say that AL7.2 is a better UI than MC3 or that MC3 is better UI than AL7 - they are similar so unless the fundamentals of editing change substantially then most people will be able re-skill to a new interface either way, and they may even like it, for surely the reason to change a UI is to enhance the user experience? 

    A 2009 dashboard of a car is very different  to a 1958 model but the fundementals are the same but the UX is enhanced.

    Yikes some people didnt even what to transition from the reliability of horse drawn carts to the combustion engine powered contraption!

    But..

    Being somewhat pedantic, what does annoy me are those people who think that AL7 is not a capable professional editing tool.

    Just as I cannot comment knowledgeably on FCP or Premier as I have limited experience with them I think that those who have limited experience on AL7.2 should refrain from commenting on its (percieved) capabilities.

    MC6 machine: Intel Core i7 Asus P8-H67 64 bit Motherboard 1*1Tb SATA drive - partitioned to C (OS and programs) and D (data) drive 1*1TB SATA drive... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Jun 12 2009 10:54 AM In reply to

    Re: MC vs Liquid...Why not COMBINE?

    Learning many NLE's doesn't make you a better editor.

    It maybe sharping your skills but this is not editing.

    Editing is there from the shooting for me.

    A director must have the editing on his mind at the setup.

    However again I am saying that there aren't many (if 1-2) NLE's better than Liquid.

    And for me certainly Premiere isn't even close to Liquid.

    But instead of talking in general we can go into details about that anytime.

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    Larry as long as I live I will remember you.

     

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  • Fri, Jun 12 2009 12:17 PM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
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    Re: MC vs Liquid...Why not COMBINE?

    I used Liquid for many years (since Edition 5) - loved it and truely believe it is a very capable tool. I made the move to MC just about a year ago. The best advice I ever received was to try to forget the Liquid workflow and embrace the MC workflow. It's different. Of course, if I go back to Liquid I return to the Liquid workflow and this can lead to some form of multiple personality disorder (I'm working through that).

    There are some things that Liquid had that I miss in MC. Probably the most noteworthy is background rendering, however, I find MC's real-time rendering of effects to be superior to Liquid's and therefore do not require the same degree of rendering as I would have had in Liquid (if that makes any sense).

    As with any tool, there is usually an optimal way to accomplish a specific task. Often we read of complaints because MC can't do something that another NLE can and then experienced users chime in with the '...and this is how it's done in MC...' answer.

    Perhaps rather than starting with the old 'I wish MC did the things Liquid did...' mindset, a more productive discussion would arise from explaining what you want to do (specifically) and ask how in MC? Then, if it can't be done easily, you could enter into the '...because in Liquid we simply did the following..' discussion (which would naturally lead to the feature request answers we also see quite often).

    My 2 cents FWIW,

    Steve

    MC 2020.8 | QT 7.7.9 | Continuum 2020.5 | Sapphire 2020.5 | Mocha Pro 2020.5 | Titler Pro 7.3 | Windows 10 Pro x64 (2004) | System: Asus x299, i9-7940X... [view my complete system specs]

    Steve

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  • Fri, Jun 12 2009 12:20 PM In reply to

    • TVJohn
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    Re: MC vs Liquid...Why not COMBINE?

    Liquid is a very capable NLE. Add to it TmpGe Express, DVDitHD, Bluff Titler, and you have tools that will accomodate 90% of what most people need.

    I find Liquid's limitation is importing any audio above 48kbs. i did post a question earlier as to wether MC was able to import and edit on the timeline say, 96kbs / 24bit pcm but the answer was not forthcomming.

    I did download a trial of Edius 5 which does handle the higher quality audio.

    Of course, we could get into the cost of aquisition of MC. For Software only, similiar to the academic version that includes only DVDit, if the purchase price could be brought to the $700~$900 range, I believe, the user base could be significantly expanded.

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  • Fri, Jun 12 2009 12:39 PM In reply to

    Re: MC vs Liquid...Why not COMBINE?

    The truth is also that many of the old time users came here and others will follow.

    So we could add our voices for making MC a better NLE.

    And we have the knowledge and experience from a pure professional NLE.

     

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    Larry as long as I live I will remember you.

     

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  • Fri, Jun 12 2009 1:28 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: MC vs Liquid...Why not COMBINE?

    Well, I finished 4 tutorials today, so I can jump back in here for a moment.

    BarkinMadd:
    There are some things that Liquid had that I miss in MC. Probably the most noteworthy is background rendering

    Definitely a very nice feature!

    BarkinMadd:
    Often we read of complaints because MC can't do something that another NLE can and then experienced users chime in with the '...and this is how it's done in MC...' answer.


    Well said, Steve!
    I remember over a period of 2 or 3 months on the Liquid Forum there was a back and forth discussion that looked like: - MC can't do this....... Oh yes it can -  here is how /  But it can't do this........ It can, if you do this. etc. etc.
    The culmination was with "MC's timeline is not like Liquid's, you cannot work on an MC timeline like in Liquid" and the reply was.... if you really want a Liquid style timeline you in MC you can do it like this.....  (I have a Tutorial showing how on "The first 100 MC Tutorials").

    BarkinMadd:
    a more productive discussion would arise from explaining what you want to do (specifically) and ask how in MC? Then, if it can't be done easily, you could enter into the '...because in Liquid we simply did the following..' discussion (which would naturally lead to the feature request answers we also see quite often).


    Good thinking, Steve.

    Regards,
    Douglas

     

     

    Director of CSM | Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]
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