Latest post Tue, Jun 9 2009 3:42 PM by Haze. 42 replies.
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  • Sun, Jun 7 2009 6:36 AM In reply to

    Re: Why Does MC Keep Old Precomputes After Exiting?

    Randall L Rike:
    But, as mentioned above, once the session has ended by exiting MC, they are no longer part of an Undo List.  They are just taking up space.

    How would the Avid tell if a certain render is not used in any previous version of any sequence in any bin? Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Jun 7 2009 6:47 AM In reply to

    • SandmanX82
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    Re: Why Does MC Keep Old Precomputes After Exiting?

    Job ter Burg:

    Randall L Rike:
    But, as mentioned above, once the session has ended by exiting MC, they are no longer part of an Undo List.  They are just taking up space.

    How would the Avid tell if a certain render is not used in any previous version of any sequence in any bin? Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

    I would think that the database or something has a list of whether anything is referencing that clip.  I mean, obviously Avid has to have a way of knowing how to link to these things in the first place...so certainly the Avid would know whether there's something or nothing pointing to it or not.  No?

     

     

  • Sun, Jun 7 2009 6:56 AM In reply to

    Re: Why Does MC Keep Old Precomputes After Exiting?

    "... How would the Avid tell if a certain render is not used in any previous version of any sequence in any bin ..."

    In the same way you can select Media Relatives, and then Reverse Selection.  It would basically automate the manual process we use now.

    Symphony 8.8.x w/Avid Nitris DX, HP z420, Windows 10, QT v7.7.x, Hexa Core 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM, nVidia Quadro Series 2000 w/353.82. 2TB Boot, 2 x 3TB internal... [view my complete system specs]

    "There are few technological barriers.  You can fix almost anything if you throw enough money at it."
    *******************************
    Randall L. Rike, ACI, ACSR Mac*Win*Unity*ISIS*DS
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  • Sun, Jun 7 2009 7:06 AM In reply to

    Re: Why Does MC Keep Old Precomputes After Exiting?

    As long as any new delete precomputes is an extra option I dont see a problem.

    Personally I like to do my media house keeping manually and would not want any (often corrupted for some) Avid data base making those decisions for me automatically.

  • Sun, Jun 7 2009 7:20 AM In reply to

    Re: Why Does MC Keep Old Precomputes After Exiting?

    Randall L Rike:
    In the same way you can select Media Relatives, and then Reverse Selection.
    For ALL sequences in ALL bins in a project? That would take forever on longform projects.

    I would think that the database or something has a list of whether anything is referencing that clip.  I mean, obviously Avid has to have a way of knowing how to link to these things in the first place...so certainly the Avid would know whether there's something or nothing pointing to it or not.  No?

    I'm pretty sure that linking is a one-way street, sequences pointing to precomputes, not the other way around.

    Whatever you guys feel is right is fine with me, but PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don't make my Avid ANY slower for longform, especially not as long as we are limited to 4GB of RAM for the application.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Jun 7 2009 9:19 AM In reply to

    • DylanReeve
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    Re: Why Does MC Keep Old Precomputes After Exiting?

    Job ter Burg:
    For ALL sequences in ALL bins in a project? That would take forever on longform projects.

    I see your "ALL sequences in ALL bins in a project" and raise you an "ALL projects" - and there it becomes impossible, because Avid doesn't know where all the project metadata resides.

    There are a number of circumstances I can think of where I duplicate a sequence from another project, modify effects and rerender. In this scenario, it would look at my sequence, see the earlier rendered media was no longer necessary, and delete. Meaning other sequences in other projects referencing that media would become unrendered.

    I share the frustration, but I think in general the way Avid deals with renders is very good and I'd not want to mess with it too much. I can't tell you how many times I've had to rerender things unnecessarily in FCP when I make a minor unrelated change, or duplicate content from one sequence to another.

    Various systems - including HP Z440 and Z840 workstations Media Composer 2018 [view my complete system specs]

    Dylan Reeve - Edit Geek // Online/Offline Editor // Post Production Supervisor
    Auckland, New Zealand

     

  • Sun, Jun 7 2009 9:24 AM In reply to

    Re: Why Does MC Keep Old Precomputes After Exiting?

    I think in general the way Avid deals with renders is very good and I'd not want to mess with it too much.

    Agreed. And with storage costing next to nothing, who cares about an extra file?

    I've had to rerender things unnecessarily in FCP when I make a minor unrelated change, or duplicate content from one sequence to another.

    AFAIK, a simple solo action on one of the videotracks will unrender whatever you had rendered in FCP.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Jun 7 2009 9:25 AM In reply to

    Re: Why Does MC Keep Old Precomputes After Exiting?

    One possibility would be that as a Precompute is created, a previous one that is being replaced (for that same effect) could be "flagged" as Unreferenced.  The flag would not prevent the Precompute from being utilized by Undo.  Only on exit, when the Undo List is being abandonded anyway, would those Precomputes that were flagged be deleted.

    Setting the flag shouldn't add any delays.  The deletions would be done at the same time as "Cleaning Databases" etc.

    ... just my thoughts a a wanna-be programmer.  Hmm

    Symphony 8.8.x w/Avid Nitris DX, HP z420, Windows 10, QT v7.7.x, Hexa Core 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM, nVidia Quadro Series 2000 w/353.82. 2TB Boot, 2 x 3TB internal... [view my complete system specs]

    "There are few technological barriers.  You can fix almost anything if you throw enough money at it."
    *******************************
    Randall L. Rike, ACI, ACSR Mac*Win*Unity*ISIS*DS
    Systems Engineer @ BET Networks [a Viacom company]
    (wwld)

  • Sun, Jun 7 2009 10:09 AM In reply to

    Re: Why Does MC Keep Old Precomputes After Exiting?

    Randall L Rike:
    as a Precompute is created, a previous one that is being replaced (for that same effect) could be "flagged" as Unreferenced

    Unreferenced by WHICH sequence in WHICH bin exactly? It implies the Avid should know which precompute is associated with which sequences in all bins (of all projects), even in more than one copy of the bin (retrieved attic bins for instance). It doesn't, and if it would need to track that info, just think about how much data processing that would cause. I often have 10 to 20 bins with diffferent versions of (different parts of) the show I'm working on. For documentaries, multiple versions at different lengths at any given point in time. The current software/hardware won't allow for all those bins to be open at the same time within the 4GB RAM limit.

    When suggesting the Avid should track more data throughout the project, shouldn't we start by allowing a search of clips and sequences through alll (open AND closed) bins?

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Jun 7 2009 12:43 PM In reply to

    • adamsonn
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    Re: Why Does MC Keep Old Precomputes After Exiting?

     

    Not to harp on it, but I do think that Avid can take a leaf out of Liquids book here.

    There is an option in Liquid that allows you to quickly delete render files with the following options:

    all of them in current project

    any render file not used in the current sequence

    Not used by any sequence in the project

    not used in any of the selected sequences

    etc.

    Very useful, because while disk space may be cheap your disk becomes a physical clutter of files and fragmented files slows down the system.

    Having the option to delete render files is very useful especialy in long projects where you can free up an extra few gigs should you start running low on space. (And no matter how big your drive is you will eventually run out of space, so why not make the ability to clean it up once in a while much easier?)

    Whilst we are at it, here are some other changes I would like to see in the effects functionality:

    1. Turn an effect on or off whilst it is applied to the timeline - this allows you to see what affect the effect has and when having multiple effects on a single clip turning off specific effects is very useful.

    2. Revert to the original state of an effect (both the default state and / or the state that it was in when you opened the effect editor). Many times I have tweaked an effect only to be unhappy with it and want to return it to the state I had it in before I fiddled!

    I have no idea how to do this (undo does not work for this as you forget how many changes you have made)

    3. When you save effects to a bin and change them, then have the option to update the effect to the new version.

    Sorry to hijack the thread sort of got on a roll because I think efect handling  could be better implemented in MC3 - but FWIW I really do agree with the original post request; why have a file that you simply cannot make use of clogging up your disk?

    MC6 machine: Intel Core i7 Asus P8-H67 64 bit Motherboard 1*1Tb SATA drive - partitioned to C (OS and programs) and D (data) drive 1*1TB SATA drive... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Jun 7 2009 1:47 PM In reply to

    Re: Why Does MC Keep Old Precomputes After Exiting?

    Hi,

    adamsonn:
    Turn an effect on or off whilst it is applied to the timeline - this allows you to see what affect the effect has and when having multiple effects on a single clip turning off specific effects is very useful.

    I haven't tested this, so I'm only 85% sure it will work, but I think you can turn individual effects in a nest on and off using the square toggle buttons in the effect editor if you're using advanced keyframes.

    good luck,
    Carl

    Media Composer 2020.9 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Windows 10 Pro [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Sun, Jun 7 2009 2:08 PM In reply to

    • Brickwad
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    Re: Why Does MC Keep Old Precomputes After Exiting?

    AndrewAction:
    As long as any new delete precomputes is an extra option I dont see a problem.

    Andrew's right. Everybody would be happy.

    1 MC4 Nitris DX on 12 core 2.66 mac pro 6 Gigs of Ram, 2 Symphony Nitris DX on eight core mac pro with 12 gig ram, 3 MC7 on Mac Pro, IMAC, and Macbook... [view my complete system specs]

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  • Sun, Jun 7 2009 2:43 PM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
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    Re: Why Does MC Keep Old Precomputes After Exiting?

    Job ter Burg:

    When suggesting the Avid should track more data throughout the project, shouldn't we start by allowing a search of clips and sequences through alll (open AND closed) bins?

    That's a good suggestion - have a mode of the existing search that goes beyond just open bins but also closed bins so that you could be absolutely certain a precompute was note used elsewhere (not 'absolutely' but close - I suppose offline projects couldn't be included in this).

    MC 2020.8 | QT 7.7.9 | Continuum 2020.5 | Sapphire 2020.5 | Mocha Pro 2020.5 | Titler Pro 7.3 | Windows 10 Pro x64 (2004) | System: Asus x299, i9-7940X... [view my complete system specs]

    Steve

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  • Sun, Jun 7 2009 3:24 PM In reply to

    Re: Why Does MC Keep Old Precomputes After Exiting?

    Brickwad:
    Everybody would be happy.

    Not if it means that the Avid has to scan each and every sequence in each and every bin (for mulitple projects?) upon closing the application.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Jun 7 2009 4:22 PM In reply to

    Re: Why Does MC Keep Old Precomputes After Exiting?

    adamsonn:

    Revert to the original state of an effect (both the default state and / or the state that it was in when you opened the effect editor). Many times I have tweaked an effect only to be unhappy with it and want to return it to the state I had it in before I fiddled!

    I have no idea how to do this (undo does not work for this as you forget how many changes you have made)

    Actually, you can do this, albeit one parameter at a time, by ALT clicking the parameter pane button. That will restore the specific parameter to default values.

    Newscutter Nitris DX 9.5.3.5 * Media Composer 5.5.3.6 (At Home on PC running XP Pro) * Symphony 6.5.2.1 (At home on MacBook Pro3,1 running 10.7.2) * Interplay... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

    Senior Editor

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