Latest post Mon, Apr 27 2009 3:41 PM by Codec Moment. 15 replies.
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  • Sun, Apr 26 2009 8:38 PM

    • tleisher
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    Differences in Products

    So, from what I gather on their website, Avid Media Composer is meant for Offline editing and cannot do any high definition editing.. the $2,500 software only package is just for quick edits of SD footage.

    Avid Media Composer Nitris is meant for online high definition editing and output, but costs a lot and you have to buy a turn key computer with the software.

    Avid Media Composer Mojo is similar to Nitris but is meant for I/O of multiple formats. Also has to be bought with a turn key system.

    Avid DS is meant for FX and Compositing (Similar to After Effects). Must be bought with a turn key system.

    Avid Media Composer Symphony Nitris is meant as a mastering and finishing solution, also has to be bought as a turn key system.

    Is all that right? How much does the software/hardware cost for Nitris or Mojo?

    Is there any reason to purchase anything other than Symphony Nitris? It looks like that can do everything plus finish. If it can't edit, then Nitris would be the next best thing to get for HD video editing, correct?

    I can see why Final Cut is more popular for web videos, as you can buy the entire package for $2.5k out of the box without having multiple software to run through. It's easier for small companies without much money to buy it.

    I definitely still want to work with Avid, just not sure where to start.. or end... or how much it all costs.

    I was planning on building my own PC to run Avid, but it seems like I can't/shouldn't do that.. right?

  • Sun, Apr 26 2009 8:42 PM In reply to

    Re: Differences in Products

    tleisher:
    the $2,500 software only package is just for quick edits of SD footage.

    uh no. 

    Where'd you read that?

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Sun, Apr 26 2009 8:49 PM In reply to

    Re: Differences in Products

    Hi,

    tleisher:
    So, from what I gather on their website, Avid Media Composer is meant for Offline editing and cannot do any high definition editing.. the $2,500 software only package is just for quick edits of SD footage.

    No, MC can edit HD without any extra boxes attached.  How well it performs depends on how fast the computer is, how good the video card is, and how fast the media drives are and how they're connected.  I've edited HD on my laptop with a firewire drive connected, for example, and I don't have a Mojo or Nitris or anything else connected.

    You can add a Mojo DX or Nitris DX to get more power and I/O options.  It's recommended to buy a turnkey system, but many people don't.  If you stick close to the system requirements, you should be fine.

    Symphony Nitris is an online finishing system.  It's turnkey.

    DS is a compositing and finishing system.  It's turnkey.

    Hope that helps a bit.

    good luck,
    Carl

    Media Composer 2020.9 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Windows 10 Pro [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Sun, Apr 26 2009 9:36 PM In reply to

    Re: Differences in Products

    15 x 185DNxHD streams with an effect on each are playing RT on my system.

    This is far from SD.

    Desktop PC

     

    Corsair RM750X|Asus P8Z68 Deluxe(Gen3)|i7 2600K@4.4|Corsair 32G DDR3|PNY Quadro P2000(442.92)|Samsung 850 Pro SSD(OS) 256 GB|2x1TB Crucial MX500@RAID 0|2x500GB Mushkin SSD@RAID 0|LG BH16NS40|W10 Pro 64bit|Media Composer Software 2020.6 with Symphony Option on Dongle|2xHP 22'' Monitors|M-Audio AV30 Speakers.

     

    Larry as long as I live I will remember you.

     

    3 Heads Digital Films

  • Mon, Apr 27 2009 12:11 AM In reply to

    • Adman
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    Re: Differences in Products

    Interesting... I ran into a production crew from Georgia Public Broadcasting the other day and they told me that they were switching from Avid to FCP "for HD editing."

    Where does the idea that you can't do HD on an Avid come from?

    Mac Pro, 64GB Ram. 1TB SSD system drive, 250Gb SSD external (media) drive. QHD Ultra wide, thunderbolt LG monitor, MC 2019.12.1. Pro Tools 11 HD (Mbox... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Apr 27 2009 12:38 AM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
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    Re: Differences in Products

    It's this sort of misinformation that Avid really has to battle head-on. I frankly feel that HD is one of MC's strengths so how we go from a strength to a 'can't do' is really a mystery. Also, the notion that MC soft is just for quick edits (sort of like using Windows Movie Maker Stick out tongue) and any serious editing should be done on the $15K turn-key solution - that's also kind of out there.

    If all this were true, I'd probably be moving to FCP, too (ouch - I think I just bit my tongue).

    Peace.

    MC 2020.8 | QT 7.7.9 | Continuum 2020.5 | Sapphire 2020.5 | Mocha Pro 2020.5 | Titler Pro 7.3 | Windows 10 Pro x64 (2004) | System: Asus x299, i9-7940X... [view my complete system specs]

    Steve

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  • Mon, Apr 27 2009 12:39 AM In reply to

    Re: Differences in Products

    Adman:
    Where does the idea that you can't do HD on an Avid come from?

    There is the answer: bad marketing. I cite: "Best choice for offline, file-based, and mobile editing" (MC Soft) vs. "Best choice for real-time online mastering and finishing" (Symphony NitrisDX). Of course they want to sell their hardware but that can lead to confusion, as we see in this thread. I would write something like: "The complete powerfull Avid Media Composer Software" vs. "Media Composer plus advanced CC and additional hardware acceleration" or something like that (I am not into marketing, you see).

    And, I think, the very late and fragmentary RED support was an issue, too.

    So maybe Avid should take another step into the direction of transparency instead of simple eyewash with the logo-thingy.

    g_f

    Dell Precision m6400, Intel QX9300 2,5GHz Quadcore, nVidia QuadroFX 3700@1GB, 4GB RAM, M-Box2, MC 3.5.1 Software Only, ProTools LE 8cs2, WindowsXP 32bit... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Apr 27 2009 12:46 AM In reply to

    Re: Differences in Products

    Adman:
    Where does the idea that you can't do HD on an Avid come from?
    Competitors smart marketing.

    Assisted by a vast increase in the number of consumers who believe anything they see or hear whilst browsing and then usually feel compelled to preach it far and wide as the truth.

    The information highways version of "the camera does not lie"  Huh?

  • Mon, Apr 27 2009 3:31 AM In reply to

    • tleisher
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    • Joined on Wed, Apr 22 2009
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    • Points 175

    Re: Differences in Products

    I didn't mean to make it sound like I was believing the hype. Quite the opposite, I'm really attracted to Avid and would love to work with it. I'm just trying to make heads or tails with all the different products, I thought there was just Media Composer, when I found out about the rest I got confused.

    So what's the point in editing Offline? What about finishing with DS or Syphony, what can they do that MC can't?

    Also, what is the point to having a Mojo? They just handle more I/O, like HDMI, etc? I'm kind of new to the technical side of editing offline, online, matering, I/O, etc.

    What can Mojo do that a capture or breakout card like the Blackmagic line or AJA Kona 3?

    Sorry if these seem stupid, just trying to find which ways up in this crazy tech world. :)

  • Mon, Apr 27 2009 4:06 AM In reply to

    • Codec Moment
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Mon, May 21 2007
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    Re: Differences in Products

    Offline vs Online editing isn't nearly the distinction it was 15 years ago but it still serves its purpose. You do the long creative work on a cheaper system with more compressed media (so it takes up less space) and once you're satisfied with that you can move over to the big guns for full quality. Assuming all goes well you save money by needing less disk space and less time on a more expensive system. Online editing used to be done tape to tape so it was a completely different system from the offline edit. Now you could do your online on the same system if it suits your needs.

    Media Composer could be used to do both the offline and online edit. For example you digitize your tapes to 15:1 to edit, then when finished you decompose the sequence and re-capture it at 1:1 for final output.  Since symphony is meant for finishing you will gain some extra features from finishing on it instead of MC (secondary color correction for example). Neither system supports 4:4:4 color.

    DS was originally a softimage product, which Avid bought. It supports 4:4:4 and more advanced effects/compositing. This primarily for films since it can work in the highest quality.

    The old mojo is for SD only and can take analog or SDI depending on which one you get. They have no HD I/O but will monitor HD in SD. Mojo DX does work with HD but has less options for connections than the Nitris DX. All of these are for input and output. If your work is mostly file based and you don't need external monitoring (or to work in uncompressed HD) you might just want media composer software.

     

    Hope this helps.

    Mac OSX 10.6.8 Avid Media Composer v6.0.1 Macbook Pro 2.5GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 2 GB 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM [view my complete system specs]

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  • Mon, Apr 27 2009 4:12 AM In reply to

    Re: Differences in Products

    tleisher:
    So what's the point in editing Offline?

    Say you're doing a documentary and have 100 hrs of footage in HD.  It would be somewhat foolish to digitize all of that at DNx220.  It's wiser to digitize it all at something like DV25 and get the cut to PIX Lock and then up-res the final sequence to DNx220 for Online. 

    tleisher:
    What about finishing with DS or Syphony, what can they do that MC can't?
      There are lots of things - DS is more of a compositor and can do lots of "looks", Symphony has better Color Correction tools than MC etc

    tleisher:
    What can Mojo do that a capture or breakout card like the Blackmagic line or AJA Kona 3?

    The number one thing it can do that the other two can't is work with Avid software.

    tleisher:
    what is the point to having a Mojo?

    There are really a few different iterations of the Mojo - first there was the "Mojo", now referred to as the "analog Mojo" as it only has connections for S-video and Composite.  Then came MojoSDI, includes SDI connections.  Now there is the MojoDX - handles HD/SD SDI and HDMI output.  There is also the NitrisDX hardware which works with MC or Symphony.  NitrisDX is a much more professional level box in terms of input/output options.

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Mon, Apr 27 2009 4:20 AM In reply to

    Re: Differences in Products

    "... first there was the "Mojo", now referred to as the "Analog Mojo" as it only has connections for S-video and Composite ..."

    To clarify, with the "Component Cable" kit from Avid, the Analong Mojo can also do Component.

    Symphony 8.8.x w/Avid Nitris DX, HP z420, Windows 10, QT v7.7.x, Hexa Core 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM, nVidia Quadro Series 2000 w/353.82. 2TB Boot, 2 x 3TB internal... [view my complete system specs]

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  • Mon, Apr 27 2009 4:26 AM In reply to

    Re: Differences in Products

    Randall L Rike:

    "... first there was the "Mojo", now referred to as the "Analog Mojo" as it only has connections for S-video and Composite ..."

    To clarify, with the "Component Cable" kit from Avid, the Analong Mojo can also do Component.

    Oh right, forgot about that.  Thanks. 

     

     

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Mon, Apr 27 2009 4:32 AM In reply to

    • tleisher
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, Apr 22 2009
    • Posts 9
    • Points 175

    Re: Differences in Products

    Codec Moment:

    Offline vs Online editing isn't nearly the distinction it was 15 years ago but it still serves its purpose. You do the long creative work on a cheaper system with more compressed media (so it takes up less space) and once you're satisfied with that you can move over to the big guns for full quality. Assuming all goes well you save money by needing less disk space and less time on a more expensive system. Online editing used to be done tape to tape so it was a completely different system from the offline edit. Now you could do your online on the same system if it suits your needs.

    Media Composer could be used to do both the offline and online edit. For example you digitize your tapes to 15:1 to edit, then when finished you decompose the sequence and re-capture it at 1:1 for final output.  Since symphony is meant for finishing you will gain some extra features from finishing on it instead of MC (secondary color correction for example). Neither system supports 4:4:4 color.

    DS was originally a softimage product, which Avid bought. It supports 4:4:4 and more advanced effects/compositing. This primarily for films since it can work in the highest quality.

    The old mojo is for SD only and can take analog or SDI depending on which one you get. They have no HD I/O but will monitor HD in SD. Mojo DX does work with HD but has less options for connections than the Nitris DX. All of these are for input and output. If your work is mostly file based and you don't need external monitoring (or to work in uncompressed HD) you might just want media composer software.

     

    Hope this helps.

    Very concise and helpful, thanks.

    Alright, so when working with Avid the only option is to get a Mojo for I/O. If you're shooting with something like the RED or something that shoots on P2 cards, do you need any kind of Mojo? I wouldn't think so, because you transfer the files using the card readers.. but I'm not 100% sure.

    When going from offline to online, can you just automatically recapture or do you have to do it by hand and recut the clips to match?

    The best idea for an indie producer who is looking to edit his project and master in high quality for a theatrical release, is to edit offline with Avid Media Composer. Then rent time (as I would think that Symphony or Avid DS would be very costly to buy) and render the master in HD. Right?

    Offhand, just curious, how much does Avid DS or Symphony cost without the hardware components, or do you HAVE to buy it as a a turn key,and if you do, how much is the entire editing solution?

    Also, how does Media Composer Adrenaline fit into all this? Also, I've heard about Media Composer Xpress or something similar, does that still exist?

  • Mon, Apr 27 2009 9:21 AM In reply to

    Re: Differences in Products

    Hi,

    tleisher:
    Alright, so when working with Avid the only option is to get a Mojo for I/O.

    Not exactly.  With Media Composer software only you can capture directly via firewire without any extra I/O boxes.  The I/O boxes give you more choices of ways to connect to the system and more choices of resolutions to capture.  Someone else will have to chime in with regard to P2.  I think you're right, but I'm not sure.

    tleisher:
    When going from offline to online, can you just automatically recapture or do you have to do it by hand and recut the clips to match?

    If you're going from a Media Composer to a Symphony you can do what's called a batch capture.  Once you've batch captured the required clips, your sequences will be complete.  You don't have to recut anything.  (You could also do this if you're going from a Media Composer software only system to a Media Composer Nitris DX system.)

    tleisher:
    The best idea for an indie producer who is looking to edit his project and master in high quality for a theatrical release, is to edit offline with Avid Media Composer. Then rent time (as I would think that Symphony or Avid DS would be very costly to buy) and render the master in HD. Right?

    Only if there is some feature you need that you cannot get from Media Composer.  In your example, I'd imagine you'd offline in Media Composer, color correct in Symphony and master from Symphony.  If Media Composer's color correction was good enough for you, and you didn't need Symphony's advanced color correction, you could skip that step and master from Media Composer.  It'd depend, I suppose, on how much money you had and how good you wanted the final master to look.  :)

    tleisher:
    Offhand, just curious, how much does Avid DS or Symphony cost without the hardware components, or do you HAVE to buy it as a a turn key,and if you do, how much is the entire editing solution?

    You have to buy them as turnkey.  Last time I checked, a Symphony Nitris DX had an MSRP of $35,995.  I don't know if that's current, but it gives you an idea.  A DS cost about $60,000 the last time I looked (depending on how much storage you get), but that was last year.

    tleisher:
    Also, how does Media Composer Adrenaline fit into all this? Also, I've heard about Media Composer Xpress or something similar, does that still exist?

    Media Composer Adrenaline is an older version.  The Adrenaline box is the predecessor of the Nitris DX box.  Avid Xpress and Xpress Pro are older versions that were discontinued a while ago.

    Hope that helps.

    good luck,
    Carl

     

    Media Composer 2020.9 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Windows 10 Pro [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

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