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  • Wed, Oct 8 2008 9:34 AM

    • adamsonn
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    Newbie question - AVI Files

    Hello

    I have researched this a little bit on these forums and the answer seems to be there somewhere, but kind of vague.

    If someone could provide me with a confirmation on this I would appreciate it.

    I have big (hour long / 13Gb ) uncompressed AVI files (ingested from MiniDV tapes through Avid Liquid 7.2).
    When I try to import these from the disk (right click in the MC3 bin and select import), the import process starts with a box that says something like creating video for QT and then is seems that it transcodes the AVI file and that given progress bar this will take some time (at least an hour).

    Funny thing is that it did the same for a small .Mov (quicktime clip) as well, but that went much quicker because the file size was much smaller.

    I am sure I am doing something wrong during the import process, please could someone advise as I will be using uncompressed AVI clips a lot in my work and there is not enough time to convert them like this (or even to convert them through Sorenson Squeeze).

    This machine is running XP SP3 - Pentium 3Ghz Duo Dual Core, 2 GB Memory and over 1 TB of disk space. Audigy 2 ZS sound card and an Nvidia GT7600 (I think) grapics card.

    I have just upgraded from AL7.2 to MC3 and at this point am wondering if this was a good thing to do.

    Kind regards

    Neil

     

    MC6 machine: Intel Core i7 Asus P8-H67 64 bit Motherboard 1*1Tb SATA drive - partitioned to C (OS and programs) and D (data) drive 1*1TB SATA drive... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Oct 8 2008 10:33 AM In reply to

    Re: Newbie question - AVI Files

    Hi. A 13GB AVI file is not an uncompressed AVI file, it is a DV-compressed AVI file. A true uncompressed 8-bits-per-pixel 24-bit AVI file with a 1-hour running time would be a whole heap larger than 13GB, mark my words. Wink

    As for importing into MC. What camera recording format was the AVI file sourced from? PAL/NTSC?

    Providing it fits a standard DV format, you need to change your import options to 601 for the size and 601 for the colour space... and make sure you have the field order set to even (lower) field first.

    This will let MC know that it's ingesting a DV-compliant file regardless of the fact it's an AVI file and you'll see the import status change to "Fast Importing" rather than "Creating Video".

    Also make sure you have started your MC project in the correct format type to match the source material. 30i NTSC or 25i PAL would be fairly common for DV material.

    I've done this many times when folk have captured MiniDV PAL material straight into Nero6 - which they've instructed to spit out a good old DV-compliant AVI file.

    Good luck.

    MSI Neo-2 Platinum Nforce3 Ultra (Bios Rev 1.0D) Athlon64 X2 4200+ (Overclocked to 2 x 2.4GHz) AMD Cool'N'Quiet CPU Throttling 2GB Corsair PC3200... [view my complete system specs]

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  • Wed, Oct 8 2008 10:48 AM In reply to

    Re: Newbie question - AVI Files

     you might do some reading in the helpile Wink on mediacreation etc.

    What is happening is that all what you ingest in Avid is transcoded to om OMFI mediafile or an MXF file, which are Avid's native media file types. You can use the media creation settings to choose MXF or OMF in de media type tab.

     Avi or MOV are both converted. And a smaller file is transcoded faster just because it is smaller

    So you are not doing anything wrong, but it is the way Avid works. And Avid mediamanagemnt is the best there is in this kind of work. When you ingest you better do that from within Avid. Transcoding is on the fly that way. Avi's already on the disk have to be handled the way you did.IN that case select a bunch of files an import them during the night/non working hours

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  • Wed, Oct 8 2008 11:09 AM In reply to

    Re: Newbie question - AVI Files

    jknikman:
    What is happening is that all what you ingest in Avid is transcoded to om OMFI mediafile or an MXF file, which are Avid's native media file types. You can use the media creation settings to choose MXF or OMF in de media type tab.

     Avi or MOV are both converted. And a smaller file is transcoded faster just because it is smaller

    ...

    So you are not doing anything wrong...

    Files matching the intended standard aren't converted or transcoded, they are rewrapped into MXF or OMF containers so long as the import options are correctly set.

    This surely is why two different import messages can appear. One is a "Fast Import" (simple rewrap of media into MXF or OMF), the other a "Convert Video" (which means Avid is actually converting video either in terms of frame size or colour space).

    If the source material was PAL or NTSC DV material and the file is a variant of a DV codec, and so long as the import settings are to 601 size, 601 colour and even (lower) field... then the file will import way quicker because no transcoding whatsoever is taking place.

    With all due respect to the original poster, I argue that if the clip is a DV-standard file in NTSC or PAL form and they are NOT seeing a "Fast Import" dialogue, then I'd say they are doing something wrong in relation to the import settings.

    I have recreated the differing import process dialogues often and with ease using clips that even Avid has already exported for me, simply by selecting incorrect import settings.

    Before the original poster leaves a machine overnight potentially processing/transcoding material that may not need to be transcoded, I'd suggest looking at the import options first because a 13GB DV-compliant file will copy fairly quickly because that's all it really is... a copying process.

    MSI Neo-2 Platinum Nforce3 Ultra (Bios Rev 1.0D) Athlon64 X2 4200+ (Overclocked to 2 x 2.4GHz) AMD Cool'N'Quiet CPU Throttling 2GB Corsair PC3200... [view my complete system specs]

    "When the waters are at their calmest, that's when folk most want to skim their pebbles." - Me

    "Be water my friend." - Bruce Lee

  • Wed, Oct 8 2008 11:23 AM In reply to

    Re: Newbie question - AVI Files

    Hi,

    malefunktion:
    This surely is why two different import messages can appear. One is a "Fast Import" (simple rewrap of media into MXF or OMF), the other a "Convert Video" (which means Avid is actually converting video either in terms of frame size or colour space).
     

    Close.  You'll see "Fast Import" if the file you're importing was created with an Avid codec, in which case, as you said, it's a simple rewrap.  If the file was created with a codec other than one of the Avid ones, then you get a longer import as the file is converted.  If, aside from the Avid codec issue, the file is DV compliant with respect to color space, field order, and frame size, the import will be faster than a non-DV compliant file, because as you said, there is less work to do.

    malefunktion:
    I argue that if the clip is a DV-standard file in NTSC or PAL form and they are NOT seeing a "Fast Import" dialogue, then I'd say they are doing something wrong in relation to the import settings.

    If they're not seeing "Fast Import" then the file they're importing wasn't created using an Avid codec.

    good luck,
    Carl

    Media Composer 2020.9 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Windows 10 Pro [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Wed, Oct 8 2008 11:29 AM In reply to

    Re: Newbie question - AVI Files

    camoscato:

    Hi,

    malefunktion:
    This surely is why two different import messages can appear. One is a "Fast Import" (simple rewrap of media into MXF or OMF), the other a "Convert Video" (which means Avid is actually converting video either in terms of frame size or colour space).
     

    Close.  You'll see "Fast Import" if the file you're importing was created with an Avid codec, in which case, as you said, it's a simple rewrap.  If the file was created with a codec other than one of the Avid ones, then you get a longer import as the file is converted.  If, aside from the Avid codec issue, the file is DV compliant with respect to color space, field order, and frame size, the import will be faster than a non-DV compliant file, because as you said, there is less work to do.

    malefunktion:
    I argue that if the clip is a DV-standard file in NTSC or PAL form and they are NOT seeing a "Fast Import" dialogue, then I'd say they are doing something wrong in relation to the import settings.

    If they're not seeing "Fast Import" then the file they're importing wasn't created using an Avid codec.

    good luck,
    Carl

    Nope, disagree and I'll happily show it to anyone. I have "Fast Imported" (NOT "Converted Video") DV-compliant material from various sources in both AVI and MOV formats.

    I have "Fast Imported" DV-AVI files created from Nero6 (capturing PAL DV material through FireWire), I have "Fast Imported" DV-AVI files created in Linux/Windows using FFmpeg/Mencoder. I have even used PAL DV-AVI files straight out of Premiere without any processing/transcoding/conversion required.

    In each of these cases i haven't had to use Quicktime, a system with Avid codecs or an Avid codec for that matter.

    In PAL land it works when the media creation colour sampling matches the DV standard you're using, so for me (PAL) 420 works, and for NTSC folk it'd be 411.

    I've just thought of my next tutorial now, and I'll show that DV AVI files from non-Avid sources, will Fast Import as easily as Quicktime "Avid" ones. YesWink

    Peace.

     

    (I just imported a 2:30 non-Avid DV PAL AVI file from my desktop into my Avid. It "Fast Imported" in 45-seconds, plays back flawlessly, and my CPU never spiked above 10% on a Dual-core system. It was just a copying procedure taking place there because transcoding of any kind would spike the CPU usage a lot higher.)

    MSI Neo-2 Platinum Nforce3 Ultra (Bios Rev 1.0D) Athlon64 X2 4200+ (Overclocked to 2 x 2.4GHz) AMD Cool'N'Quiet CPU Throttling 2GB Corsair PC3200... [view my complete system specs]

    "When the waters are at their calmest, that's when folk most want to skim their pebbles." - Me

    "Be water my friend." - Bruce Lee

  • Wed, Oct 8 2008 11:48 AM In reply to

    Re: Newbie question - AVI Files

    Hi,

    I stand corrected.  I just tried importing a DV-compliant file into a MC 3.0.5 project at DV resolution, and it does indeed say "Fast Importing" during the import. 

    I learn something new every day. Smile

    adios,
    Carl

    Media Composer 2020.9 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Windows 10 Pro [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Wed, Oct 8 2008 11:52 AM In reply to

    Re: Newbie question - AVI Files

    camoscato:

    Hi,

    I stand corrected.  I just tried importing a DV-compliant file into a MC 3.0.5 project at DV resolution, and it does indeed say "Fast Importing" during the import. 

    I learn something new every day. Smile

    adios,
    Carl

    Hey yeah, I was as shocked when I found out that Avid didn't despise AVI files quite as much as I was led to initially believe.

    The import options are key though, and the colour sampling choice at import has to match as well. But yeah, it's good to know because I have been given stuff captured through Nero which generates DV AVI files and a lot of the time folk were like: "Oooh, that'll take ages to import/convert/transcode."

    I'll probably still do a tutorial though because it's useful information. Yes

    Peace.

    MSI Neo-2 Platinum Nforce3 Ultra (Bios Rev 1.0D) Athlon64 X2 4200+ (Overclocked to 2 x 2.4GHz) AMD Cool'N'Quiet CPU Throttling 2GB Corsair PC3200... [view my complete system specs]

    "When the waters are at their calmest, that's when folk most want to skim their pebbles." - Me

    "Be water my friend." - Bruce Lee

  • Wed, Oct 8 2008 12:08 PM In reply to

    Re: Newbie question - AVI Files

     Great, just tested it also. Happy to learn something new. Do that tutorial Yes!

    Hans

    Dell Precision 670, Xeon 3Ghz 3GB Memory 1 x 250 systemdisk, Gb 2x500 Gb datadisks, 4x 1Tb datadisks, Soundblaster Audigy, Quadro FX 1400, MC latest, Mojo... [view my complete system specs]

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  • Wed, Oct 8 2008 12:19 PM In reply to

    • mjolnarn
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    Re: Newbie question - AVI Files

     Very good of Neil to ask this question, I guess that it should have been one of my first questions when beginning to use MC in the next week or so, i am waiting for delivery of MC3 software in the middle - end  of the week hopefully,

     Thanks Neil, we old Liquid editors meet here again on this side of the line, back to the Avid forum again after some years at the Pinnacle forums.

    Mac: 17" Macbook Pro i7 2,66 ghz with 8Gb Ram, 500gb 7200rpm drive___ PC_NEW Win10 Pro Mbo Asus Rampage IV Black CPU Ivy Bridge-E 4960X ( = 12 x 4... [view my complete system specs]

    Tomas 

     

  • Wed, Oct 8 2008 1:09 PM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
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    Re: Newbie question - AVI Files

     So is it generally true that MC will re-wrap media when it can (for example, HDV material) or is this specific to DV material?

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    Steve

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  • Wed, Oct 8 2008 1:15 PM In reply to

    Re: Newbie question - AVI Files

    BarkinMadd:

     So is it generally true that MC will re-wrap media when it can (for example, HDV material) or is this specific to DV material?

    Avid in my experience will rewrap DV material providing the source files are DV compliant: PAL/NTSC 4:2:0 or 4:1:1 colour sampling, fps, field dominance etc..

    Providing you instruct Avid correctly at the import stage as to what the source file actually is, then working with DV from non-Avid systems can be smooth sailing.

    As for HDV, Avid deals natively with standard HDV material, so it pretty much does the same thing. It ingests the HDV, pops it in an MXF container preserving the underlying raw data and you're good to go.

    I've only ever worked with HDV 1080i50 footage from a Sony Z1E and it was a pleasant experience at that. I wish I had access to more HDV type material to check the nature of the "Fast Import" process with it.

    This "Fast Import" process also applies to DNxHD material too. I've created material in Linux using FFmpeg and generated DNxHD material that "Fast Imports" and rewraps into Avid as well. Really useful.

    MSI Neo-2 Platinum Nforce3 Ultra (Bios Rev 1.0D) Athlon64 X2 4200+ (Overclocked to 2 x 2.4GHz) AMD Cool'N'Quiet CPU Throttling 2GB Corsair PC3200... [view my complete system specs]

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  • Wed, Oct 8 2008 1:34 PM In reply to

    • adamsonn
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    Re: Newbie question - AVI Files

    To all that responded here, thanks for the assistance it is really appreciated. It provided me with a good welcome to MC3.

    Just a favour please (as I am not at my editing bay and cannot test this). Whilst it seems that a "fast import" can be done on AL7.2 DV files, it seems that the settingsa are important so owuld it be possible to include the steps for doing a fast import of DV AVI files. (A sort of precursor to the tutorial if you will).

    Thomas good to see I am not alone here! Lets see if we can crack this MC3 thing together!

    MC6 machine: Intel Core i7 Asus P8-H67 64 bit Motherboard 1*1Tb SATA drive - partitioned to C (OS and programs) and D (data) drive 1*1TB SATA drive... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Oct 8 2008 1:45 PM In reply to

    Re: Newbie question - AVI Files

    Adamson... here are the steps.

    1.) Create an appropriate project type (25i PAL/30i NTSC - you didn't say which you are working with.)
    2.) Set your Media Creation settings to correct type: DV 25 420 for PAL DV, DV 25 411 for NTSC DV (typically) and use either MXF or OMF, choice is yours.
    3.) Open your bin, right-click > Import.
    4.) Locate a DV AVI file and highlight it.
    5.) In the Import dialogue set the Video Resolution to match what your DV AVI is. For regular PAL DV that would normally be DV 25 420, and for NTSC DV that'd usually be DV 25 411.
    6.) Click the Options button.
    7.) Ensure that Aspect Ratio/Pixel Ratio is set to 601/709 non-square.
    8.) Ensure that the Color Levels button is set to 601/709.
    9.) Ensure that the File Field Order option is set to Even (Lower Field First).
    10.) Click Okay and then Okay again to start importing the file.

    Let us know how you get on. Wink

    MSI Neo-2 Platinum Nforce3 Ultra (Bios Rev 1.0D) Athlon64 X2 4200+ (Overclocked to 2 x 2.4GHz) AMD Cool'N'Quiet CPU Throttling 2GB Corsair PC3200... [view my complete system specs]

    "When the waters are at their calmest, that's when folk most want to skim their pebbles." - Me

    "Be water my friend." - Bruce Lee

  • Wed, Oct 8 2008 4:20 PM In reply to

    • adamsonn
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    Re: Newbie question - AVI Files

    Hello

    That semed to do the trick - the fast import is happening as I write this (not quite as fast as I would have thought - it seems to do about 3-5 minutes / 13Gb but faster than previously experienced and quite a relief).

    Just a couple of things from yuor guide -

    1. I have changed my media creatoin settings all seems ok there - I am PAL so I set all to DV25 420)

    2. When I select import from the bin context menu and then press options from the popup box, I cannot see the place to change the color levels buttons.

    I have: 

    Image size adjustment - no changes made here

    Field ordering in file  - changed to even lower field first,

    File Pixel to video mapping - changed to 601 SD /709 HD

    Alpha channel  - no changes made here

    Frame import duration no changes made here

    Am I missing something here to speed up the  fast import process , or is this the expected speed of a fast import?

    But regardless, thanks for the assistance, it is appreciated.

    Neil

    MC6 machine: Intel Core i7 Asus P8-H67 64 bit Motherboard 1*1Tb SATA drive - partitioned to C (OS and programs) and D (data) drive 1*1TB SATA drive... [view my complete system specs]
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