Latest post Mon, Dec 27 2010 2:37 PM by Eyar. 11 replies.
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  • Wed, Sep 17 2008 9:57 AM

    • shaveymojo
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    Exporting to QT Interlacing Questions and Quandries

    Hi,
    this was my 5-day quest to export a 70-minute long wedding video in Quick Time format. I failed time and time again to export a decent product, and read the "How to DVD" and nearly everything I could get my hands on in this forum, other forums, and in books such as Kaufmann's "Avid Editing" to try and solve my dilemma. I'm new to editing and have little experience exporting. Well, maybe even zero experience. In the end I managed to get a quality export, but I actually don't know why, or moreso, what I was doing in the beginning that was so incorrect. I want to share my experience and hope someone can point out what I did right or wrong. Except for one other test, the footage was from Sony Z1 in dvcam mode, PAL. After approximately two dozen test exports, the export settings that worked were as follows:

    Export As: Quick Time Movie
    Custom: Avid Packed Codec, Millions, Best, 720x576
    Avid DV Codec,
    720/576, Crop/Pad
    601/709
    Single
    Native

    The main issue I was having was interlacing, I could not shake this interlacing issue, as can be seen here:

    http://7jc.com/avid/test-1-1.jpg

    I tried moving between Odd and Even Fields, choosing deinterlacing in the export options, choosing Odd versus Even under importing (even though the footage was captured from a dv tape), and re-captured, captured from other decks, tried .avi, and put it through Sorenson to also try and deinterlace. But nothing helped. Below is a list of the variety of settings I used until I found one that worked:

    /test-1-1.mov (58.5MB)
    Footage from PAL Sony Z1, dvcam
    Export As: Quick Time Movie
    Same as Source
    AVID DV Codec
    601/709
    4:3
    CONCLUSION: Serious interlacing problems
    Put through sorenson DVD_PAL_Lg (16.2MB)
    CONCLUSION: Serious interlacing problems

    /test-1-2.mov (13.8MB)
    Export As: Quick Time Movie
    Footage from PAL Sony Z1, dvcam
    AVID DV Codec
    Custom
    Size to Fit
    601/709
    Odd
    Native
    CONCLUSION: Serious interlacing problems

    /test-1-3.mov (58.5MB) 
    Footage from PAL Sony Z1, dvcam
    Export As: Quick Time Movie
    Same as Source
    Not Avid DV Codec
    601/709
    Native
    CONCLUSION: Serious interlacing problems

    /test-1-4.mov (58.5MB)
    Footage from PAL Sony Z1, dvcam
    Export As: Quick Time Movie
    Same as Source
    AVID DV Codec
    601/709
    Native
    CONCLUSION: Serious interlacing problems

    Put through Sorenson DVD_PAL_Lg
    CONCLUSION: Serious interlacing problems

    /test-1-5.mov (19.9MB)
    Footage from PAL Sony Z1, dvcam
    Export As: Quick Time Movie
    Custom: H.264, PAL 720x576, Deinterlace Source Video
    AVID DV Codec
    601/709
    Native
    CONCLUSION: Serious interlacing problems

    /test-1-6.mov (19.5MB)
    Footage from PAL Panasonic DVX
    Export As: Quick Time Movie
    Custom: H.264, PAL 720x576, Deinterlace Source Video
    AVID DV Codec
    720x576, size to fit
    601/709
    Odd
    Native
    CONCLUSION: Serious interlacing problems

    /test-1-7.mov (19.7MB)
    Footage from PAL Sony Z1, dvcam
    Export As: Quick Time Movie
    Custom: H.264, PAL 720x576, Deinterlace Source Video
    AVID DV Codec
    720x576, Crop/Pad
    601/709
    Odd
    Native
    CONCLUSION: Serious interlacing problems

    /test-1-8.avi (189MB)
    Footage from PAL Sony Z1, dvcam
    CONCLUSION: Serious interlacing problems, horrible compression artifacts
    Put through Sorenson DVD_PAL_Lg
    CONCLUSION: Garbage in, garbage out

    /test-1-9.mov (19.7MB)
    Footage from PAL Sony Z1, dvcam
    Export As: Quick Time Movie
    Custom: H.264, PAL 720x576, Deinterlace Source Video
    AVID DV Codec
    720x576, Crop/Pad
    601/709
    Even
    Native
    CONCLUSION: Serious interlacing problems

    /test-1-10.mov (14MB)
    Footage from PAL Sony Z1, dvcam
    Export As: Quick Time Movie
    Custom: H.264, PAL 720x576, Deinterlace Source Video
    AVID DV Codec
    720x576, Crop/Pad
    601/709
    Single
    Native
    CONCLUSION: Interlacing issue resolved, over-compressed

    THE ONE THAT WORKED:

    /test-1-11.mov (433MB)
    Footage from PAL Sony Z1, dvcam
    Export As: Quick Time Movie
    Custom: Avid Packed Codec, Millions, Best, 720x576
    Avid DV Codec,
    720/576, Crop/Pad
    601/709
    Single
    Native
    CONCLUSION: Seems to work: http://7jc.com/avid/test-1-10.jpg

    There are just so many options to choose from under Export, and I don't know why I would have to go fully into custom mode to get a quality video that is Same as Source and free from these interlacing issues. And I have not fully grasped what Single Field is, although I read it's bad for crisp titles, why my PAL video would not be Odd (as I read it should be). So in the end possibly it all worked, but I don't know why, and I don't know why all those other settings which seem to be the intuitive ones, do not deinterlace this video. This same scenario occurs if I export footage from any of my video cameras (z1, DVX, Handcam, XL1s) so I don't imagine it is a video recording issue. One thing that is not intuitive, is when you select Avid DV Codec, but then choose Custom, and another codec there is chosen. I don't know which one gets precedence.

    I do hope someone can shed some light into what I did wrong/right, as it would help me understand the process so much better.

    Thanks for your time! 

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  • Wed, Sep 17 2008 2:54 PM In reply to

    • Moses.M
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    Re: Exporting to QT Interlacing Questions and Quandries

    I think, you're major problem is to tell the encoder you use, what field order he has to expect. for example in adobe after effects it's "interpret footage", tmpgenc has a similar setting (source video). I use sorensen mainly to create web videos and therefor I use the deinterlace setting "auto adaptive blend" to remove the interlacing artifacts. except from that I export the videos as a quicktime refernce file - not using the Avid DV codec.

    regards Moses

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  • Wed, Sep 17 2008 5:35 PM In reply to

    Re: Exporting to QT Interlacing Questions and Quandries

    Your source footage is interlaced and is designed to play back on a TV. You did nothing wrong in capturing your footage and providing you are going back to tape or to a DVD everything is as it is supposed to be.

    However, If you are trying to produce a quicktime for use on a desktop you either have to remove the fields or have a player that will intelligently remove them on playback. (Quicktime Pro has an option to de-interlace or show single fields in the Movie Properties dialogue)

    When you export for a desktop environment or web video you normally want to remove interlacing to avoid any problems with the end user. You therfore can't use the source compression as this leaves everything intact.

    Choose CUSTOM and then set up your desired codec under Format Options..

    You will then have new options available under File Field Order and choosing Single Field will force Avid to ignore one of the fields. You will lose some image quality as you are effectively throwing away half of your data.

    It's a mind bender but it's always been that way. Good luck.

     

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  • Thu, Sep 18 2008 2:41 PM In reply to

    • shaveymojo
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    • Joined on Wed, Oct 17 2007
    • Prague, Czech Republic
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    Re: Exporting to QT Interlacing Questions and Quandries

    Thanks for the reply. I was actually trying to create a DVD, not make a quicktime for use on my PC. I then put the footage (the export that seemed to work) through Sorenson (MPEG2) and authored a DVD with DVDit. So yes, I would want it to play on a TV, and thus it could be interlaced? But that interlacing was extreme http://7jc.com/avid/test-1-1.jpg and the only way around it I found was single-field.

    But even though the final 70 minute MPEG video clip (exported single-field) was 4GB, the quality is still pretty pixilated and over-compressed in my opinion (probably the ignored field). I'm not happy with the final product (on DVD) at this point.

     

     

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  • Thu, Sep 18 2008 2:58 PM In reply to

    • Moses.M
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    Re: Exporting to QT Interlacing Questions and Quandries

    try this one:

    - export as a quicktime reference file (render all effects / don't use the AVID DV codec)
    - import this file to sorensen, apply a custom filter, select de-interlace - auto adaptiv blend
    - apply the MPEG2 preset, take care it's a PAL preset (upper field first) f.e. MPEG2 DVD PAL 16:9 lg
    - encode it and author your dvd

    to save time, just test it with a 5 minute sequence...

    what does it look like?

    by the way: which program do you use to author your dvd?

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  • Thu, Sep 18 2008 4:20 PM In reply to

    • shaveymojo
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    Re: Exporting to QT Interlacing Questions and Quandries

    Hi, again,

    I followed your instructions to the letter aside from selecting "auto adaptive blend," which I could not find anywhere, either in the custom filter or MPEG2 presets. I have both DVDPro and DVDit, and had tried tests with both. I've also a slew of burners, DeepBurner, ImgBurn, as well as the ones that are bundled in the authoring software.

    The first DVD looked crisp, no interlacing, but it juttered badly. I went back and reduced the bit rate to 7000 from 7900, burned another, and it looks great. I guess I should have been exporting the QT reference all along. If you could please tell me where to look for this auto adaptive blend, I would appreciate it, could not find it referenced in Sorenson help or online.

    And I get a warning in DVDPro that my video has "open GOPs." What should I select in the GOP Structure setting, is this a critical issue of sorts?

     

    Thanks again!

     

     

     

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  • Fri, Sep 19 2008 12:45 AM In reply to

    Re: Exporting to QT Interlacing Questions and Quandries

    Just curious, but how were you viewing the finished DVDs? On your computer or through a separate DVD player hooked up to you TV?

    As I mentioned before it should be interlaced for a DVD but you won't see the interlacing when played back correctly. However, any exported still like your jpeg will still show the interlacing.

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  • Fri, Sep 19 2008 9:03 AM In reply to

    • shaveymojo
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, Oct 17 2007
    • Prague, Czech Republic
    • Posts 12
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    Re: Exporting to QT Interlacing Questions and Quandries

    I had been viewing half of them on a seperate DVD player hooked up to a TV, and half on my PC. I think a lot of my "problems" were simply not knowing that the video exported from Avid will look horribly interlaced when played in QT or in the authoring software directly on my computer, that it won't look normal until I burn the DVD and play it on a TV. So I did not burn every test, and thus the only previewing I was doing for half my test was on my computer, which of course I now know will look interlaced.

    I don't have a client monitor yet, and I see that would be helpful to preview the finished video. I assume with a client monitor I can preview the movie am authoring before I burn?

    I certainly have learned the importance of exporting for a TV versus the web, and how different the settings are. I had always just assumed the only difference was that web media was compresssed more.

     

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  • Fri, Sep 19 2008 1:25 PM In reply to

    • Moses.M
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on Mon, Jun 9 2008
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    Re: Exporting to QT Interlacing Questions and Quandries

    ...from selecting "auto adaptive blend", which I could not ...

    just apply a filter, double click it, activate the "Deinterlace" filter and press the "Play" symbol below which will open the filter settings. for the deinterlace filter you just can select the way how deinterlacing should work, other filters have different options.

    IMHO it's a little bit strange, that the video wasn't playing back smooth at 7900 kbps. I often encode videos with 8000 kbps and 224 kbps audio and it always works fine. Strange.

    Regards M.

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  • Sat, Sep 20 2008 2:28 AM In reply to

    • jwrl
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    • Melbourne, Australia
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    Re: Exporting to QT Interlacing Questions and Quandries

    Moses.M:
    IMHO it's a little bit strange, that the video wasn't playing back smooth at 7900 kbps. I often encode videos with 8000 kbps and 224 kbps audio and it always works fine. Strange.

    Limiting factors will be error rate of the burn, audio data rate, and playback performance of the DVD deck amongst other issues.  It's not terribly surprising that one user has trouble with 7900 kbps and another doesn't.  For preview purposes I run as low as 5500 kbps, because in the past I had a client that used to regularly have failures playing back anything much above 6000 kbps.

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  • Thu, Feb 11 2010 3:08 PM In reply to

    • didien
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    Re: Exporting to QT Interlacing Questions and Quandries

    1.Export your timeline into Quick Time movie, use Avid Codec

    2. Open Canopus Procoder (ver 2/ver 3)

    3. Add your file and click advance, there is filter and choose adapative deinterlace

    4.click close

    5. add target, choose dvd> DVD Vob

    6. burn that folder with Nero (DVD video)

    7. Done!

    I always do like that to make DVD and it work

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  • Mon, Dec 27 2010 2:37 PM In reply to

    • Eyar
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    Re: Exporting to QT Interlacing Questions and Quandries

    Hi.

    Thank you Shaveymojo for the through and pecise information you provided for all of your testing. 

    I'm quite an expirienced Avid user, and I have been having the same issue for ages, and never seemed to find a proper solution.

    It seems that all of the solutions decribed here only work using extrenal tools outside of Avid.

    Is there any way of dealing with this issue using the interal Avid MC export options?

    I mostly work in production houses and they do not all have the same programs. Whatmore- while the solution described in this post might be appropriate for exporting to DVD, they are not appropriate for other uses.

    Today I tried exporting a cut to the Flame online editor. Usually I produce EDL's or AAF's and the Flame recaptures the media, but in this particular case the original media was not immideayly available.

    In another case I sent the sequence over e-mail to be shown in a confrence directly from the computer. I wanted a high res output, but was also worried that they might not have some codecs  (like H.264),

    Does anyone here have any idea how to deal with this issue?

    Thank You.

     

     

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