Latest post Fri, Oct 20 2023 10:55 AM by Job ter Burg. 3 replies.
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  • Tue, Oct 17 2023 10:29 AM

    • Bruno M
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    • Joined on Thu, Feb 11 2010
    • London, UK
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    Poor results with UME 5.1 exports

    Hi all,

    Seeing the 'LFE only' option now properly added to the mixer menu in the 2023.8 'What's New' document, I thought I'd revisit the whole issue of exporting a timeline with 5.1 interleaved surround sound.

    I decided to compare both MC 2018.12.15 (using the older Quicktime libraries) with 2023.8.1 using UME.

    I'd export flavours of ProRes, OP1a and H264/5 to see how well each export correctly produced the desired result.

    As source material, I used both a SMPTE 5.1 surround mix as well as separate stems - as supplied by a typical sound mix.

    I'd analyse the results using Davinci Resolve and Telestream Switch, which can reliably tell me that the export is a proper 5.1 interleaved track with the correct SMPTE channel allocation.

    I have to report that results of these tests were pretty poor. Out of the 18 tests I conducted, only four of these produced the correct result. Three of these were from MC 2018.12, with only one correct export from 2023.8.

    I'm in the process of producing a document in the next day-or-so, which gives details of the tests, such as codec settings and analysis of the final exports. I'll post it to this thread when completed so that you can all see my methodology.

    I'm happy to get any feedback on the results and in particular, anything I might have done incorrectly.

    Assuming I haven't made any major mistakes, my conclusion is that I simply cannot trust MC to produce correct surround exports in almost all cases. Although exports might look OK from a cursory glance, you cannot assume that checking the 5.1 box in the audio settings is going give the desired result.

    HP Z800, HP G9 Fury, SonnetFusion RAID, Mojo DX, Decklink 4K, Ultrastudio 3G, Symphony 2018 & 2022, Boland BVB25 OLED, JVC DTV1910 HD CRT, Eizo ColorEdge... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Oct 17 2023 5:59 PM In reply to

    Re: Poor results with UME 5.1 exports

    I'm betting you are trying to stay in SMPTE order within Media Composer. You shouldn't. You tell MC the channel order the source clip is already in. After that, let MC do its routing internally (which, under the hood, is in PT order LCRLsRsLfe) and all will end up correctly.

    But please do post your test description so we can sort this.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Oct 20 2023 9:51 AM In reply to

    • Bruno M
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Feb 11 2010
    • London, UK
    • Posts 1,054
    • Points 13,385

    Re: Poor results with UME 5.1 exports

    As promised, I've attached a PDF of the tests I ran earlier this week.

    Job ter Burg:
    I'm betting you are trying to stay in SMPTE order within Media Composer. You shouldn't. You tell MC the channel order the source clip is already in. After that, let MC do its routing internally (which, under the hood, is in PT order LCRLsRsLfe) and all will end up correctly.

    I'm assuming that having SMPTE selected in the Project Audio Settings would handle this.

    I am telling MC the correct channel order using the multichannel settings.

    I'm not doing any further channel manipulations to the linked 5.1 material.

    Regarding the stems, are you saying I don't need to pan/assign the mono tracks and Avid will route accordingly?

    Everything plays correctly on the timeline looking at the 5.1 metering. I also checked everything was playing OK in a 5.1 suite with Blackmagic hardware, looking at the de-embedded SDI audio tracks on the Reference monitor audio display.

    If I had done somehing wrong on the timeline, it doesn't explain why some exports were OK and others weren't when using the identical timeline.

    HP Z800, HP G9 Fury, SonnetFusion RAID, Mojo DX, Decklink 4K, Ultrastudio 3G, Symphony 2018 & 2022, Boland BVB25 OLED, JVC DTV1910 HD CRT, Eizo ColorEdge... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Oct 20 2023 10:55 AM In reply to

    Re: Poor results with UME 5.1 exports

    The audio project settings for smpte/film order only change the channel order of the meters and the waveform dislplay order in the interface. It doesn't change anything under the hood. But what you are experiencing seems unrelated to that.

    AFAIK, Op1a mxf exports only allow for monophonic audio, so these results might be as expected. The C,L,R ordee is a standard order for some auido codecs (AAC) and would be as expected for any player, which will route that correctly for playback. I don't think MC lets you determine the channel order for any export format, it automatically sets it according to the export formats standard channel order/format.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
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