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  • Thu, Apr 6 2023 10:45 PM

    • Kingsride
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    • Joined on Wed, Apr 10 2013
    • Posts 96
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    Floating bins in 2022.12

    I've been reluctant to step away from MC 8.6 as every version I've tried since then has exhibited woeful performance problems.

    I'm now being pushed by the facility I work for to adopt 2022.12 as they can no longer guarantee support for 8.6 and its compatibility with the latest Nexis storage used throughout.

    Anyway, it had to happen one day but now I'm not only having to deal with poor performance but the new interface as well. I know from reading posts here that many editors are highly critical of the new GUI, bin containers, tabbed panels, bins etc etc. I have to agree. It's a mess and so far I just cannot get the interface to work consistently the way I want it. Bins appear and disappear randomly as I change workspaces, tools suddenly become detached and float when they were originally tabbed with others. Once detached they refuse to re-attach where I originally put them. I'm having to 'restore to default' tools way too many times to dock them back in position that it's becomes tedious. 

    As for host panels - why are they so unituitive?

    It really shouldn't be this difficult.

    But moving on, here is my question:

    If I float a bin in 2022.12, that bin is then permanently visible above other bin containers and tools. Even if I try to bring a window (bin or tool etc) forwards which is partially hidden by the floating bin, it will always remain partially hidden, the floating bin seems permanently pinned on top of everything else. To me this is a bug, why would I want this behaviour? Unless I can switch it off.

    I asked a colleague who was still using a 2021 version and this didn't happen. Floating bins behaved like every other window, hiding others but could be hidden itself by clicking bins or windows behind it.

    So is it a bug or a optional feature?

     

    Perry

    Macbook Pro Retina | 750GB | 10.10.5 | MC 8.4.2 | Symphony Option [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Apr 8 2023 5:21 PM In reply to

    Re: Floating bins in 2022.12

    Hi Perry, hope you are well.

    Transition to new GUI was not a straight forward as I was expecting to me when tried to do it just unistalling and upgrading.

    I have to confess that once I invested 30 minutes of my time and wacthed these 2 tutorials, my lifes has been much easier, and since then I love "new GUI", and I wouldn't change it for nothing in the world, and has been even better upgrade in upgrade out.

    Please do as me and watch this... you'll wont regret.

    Let's Edit with Media Composer - What's New in 2019.6 part 1 - The New Interface - YouTube

    Let's Edit with Media Composer - What's New in 2019.6 part 2 - Bins - YouTube

    Hope it helps! All the best!

    Diego

    * last cfg * Media Composer 2023.3 * MC | PM 2021.3 * MC | Cloud UX 2021.7 * MC | NM 2021.7 * MC | PM Archive 2021.2 * MC | PS 2021.3. ACSR Media | Composer - ACSR | Nexis - ACSR | Production Management

  • Sat, Apr 8 2023 11:21 PM In reply to

    • Kingsride
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    • Joined on Wed, Apr 10 2013
    • Posts 96
    • Points 1,150

    Re: Floating bins in 2022.12

    Thanks Diego,

    I appreciate your feedback but unfortunately those two instructional videos didn’t tell me anything I didn’t already know about the new interface. Neither did they address the problems I was flagging up.  I understand docking and tabbing and in fact like that idea. In versions before the new GUI I was always very neat with my bin layout and used large tabbed bins all the time. 

    This new interface however behaves very randomly it seems to me when switching between workspaces. I’ve had bins randomly float over my interface when I enter effects mode. When I try to move them out of the way by docking them somewhere or even just closing them, up they appear again when I switch workspaces and back to effects. Even if I save the workspace first this happens. It makes no sense whatsoever. 
     
    I’ve had the timecode tool suddenly become undocked from where I put it originally when switching workspaces. When I try to re-dock it, no landing zones appear around where I originally docked it. It only showed landing zones around the timeline container and around the host panel on my second monitor. Only by restoring the timecode window to its default setting would I be able to dock it again. Then I could revert to a backup of my timecode window setting (I duplicated the setting before restoring to default) and it would be as I intended. All seemed well until a few operations later the same timecode window detached again and floated. Crazy behaviour. 
     
    Also, the question I was originally asking, you left unanswered. In 2022.12 a floating bin window seems to always sit on top of everything as if it’s permanently pinned. If part of it is covering the timeline for example, there’s no way I can find to view the whole timeline over that floating bin. The only way to see the full timeline container is to move the floating bin away, minimise it or close it altogether. This really doesn’t seem right to me. 2022.12 is my first experience with the new GUI so I was wondering if it’s a bug. A colleague of mine using an earlier version says he’s never seen this behaviour.  It does to my eyes seem wrong and a mistake, not an intended feature. Have you a view on this one? Perry 

     

    Macbook Pro Retina | 750GB | 10.10.5 | MC 8.4.2 | Symphony Option [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Apr 9 2023 2:50 AM In reply to

    Re: Floating bins in 2022.12

    Hi, I only briefly used a 2023 version and found some stuff I didn't like about Effects tools... but I retreated to a 2021.12 version and figured it would get sorted out eventually. 

    I would first ask if you had created a New User Setting when you first upgraded? That sometimes explains weirdnesses.

    If so, did you get a chance to look over the Settings?  There is one in there that upon clicking, sends an opened bin into a tab of a Bin Container... or not. I forget what section it's in Bin or Interface. If that works for you, then try doing a workspace save, switch to a diffetent workspace, then return.. to see if that tabbed bin stayed tabbed. Also recommend you create your own custom workspaces and ignore the default ones.

    I hope you get it under control... happy to help if I can.

    Kingsride:

    Thanks Diego,

    I appreciate your feedback but unfortunately those two instructional videos didn’t tell me anything I didn’t already know about the new interface. Neither did they address the problems I was flagging up.  I understand docking and tabbing and in fact like that idea. In versions before the new GUI I was always very neat with my bin layout and used large tabbed bins all the time. 

    This new interface however behaves very randomly it seems to me when switching between workspaces. I’ve had bins randomly float over my interface when I enter effects mode. When I try to move them out of the way by docking them somewhere or even just closing them, up they appear again when I switch workspaces and back to effects. Even if I save the workspace first this happens. It makes no sense whatsoever. 
     
    I’ve had the timecode tool suddenly become undocked from where I put it originally when switching workspaces. When I try to re-dock it, no landing zones appear around where I originally docked it. It only showed landing zones around the timeline container and around the host panel on my second monitor. Only by restoring the timecode window to its default setting would I be able to dock it again. Then I could revert to a backup of my timecode window setting (I duplicated the setting before restoring to default) and it would be as I intended. All seemed well until a few operations later the same timecode window detached again and floated. Crazy behaviour. 
     
    Also, the question I was originally asking, you left unanswered. In 2022.12 a floating bin window seems to always sit on top of everything as if it’s permanently pinned. If part of it is covering the timeline for example, there’s no way I can find to view the whole timeline over that floating bin. The only way to see the full timeline container is to move the floating bin away, minimise it or close it altogether. This really doesn’t seem right to me. 2022.12 is my first experience with the new GUI so I was wondering if it’s a bug. A colleague of mine using an earlier version says he’s never seen this behaviour.  It does to my eyes seem wrong and a mistake, not an intended feature. Have you a view on this one? Perry 

     

     

     

    -Telegram!

     

  • Sun, Apr 9 2023 7:40 AM In reply to

    Re: Floating bins in 2022.12

    Telegram had made a good point I forgot to remind you... it's been for a few versions that Avid recommmed to buid Editor Settings from Scracth with New major versions upgrades... So I would start from there if this was not the case...

    Secondly I'd have always the latest patch installed from your current version... I checked 2022.12 has a 2022.12.2 hotfix, readme's doesn't mention any fix on floating panels, but you have not seen this behaviour in previous MC versions, I'd give it a try...

    In third place I did a coupl of test wit 2023.3, sorry is the version I have and I saw the ramdon panels apperaing jumping to defaut workspaces... once I created and saved "my onw version" of each workspace, docking panels here and there, jump across them was always consitent.

    I tried the floating all pannels, dragged a bin in front of the timeline, and when I clicked on it, bin went back and as expectd Timeline was above it...

    Any chance you can create a screen recording to show us preciesely the problem you are experiencing? This way we can know if soething happening just in yoour version, and you will be able to create a support case and refer this forum thread on it.

    HTH!

    Cheers!

    Diego

    PS: this the setting Telegram mentioned about Bin's behaviour

     

    * last cfg * Media Composer 2023.3 * MC | PM 2021.3 * MC | Cloud UX 2021.7 * MC | NM 2021.7 * MC | PM Archive 2021.2 * MC | PS 2021.3. ACSR Media | Composer - ACSR | Nexis - ACSR | Production Management

  • Sun, Apr 9 2023 7:51 AM In reply to

    Re: Floating bins in 2022.12

    I forgot to mention that you can still use the old way of arranging windows and panels in MC using the Floating all panels options.

    That will be your default behaviour for all your workspaces now I guess.

    You need to arrange windows dragging them from the top bar on each of them, not the purple top left handle, that is to dock and drop them.

    HTH!

    * last cfg * Media Composer 2023.3 * MC | PM 2021.3 * MC | Cloud UX 2021.7 * MC | NM 2021.7 * MC | PM Archive 2021.2 * MC | PS 2021.3. ACSR Media | Composer - ACSR | Nexis - ACSR | Production Management

  • Sun, Apr 9 2023 7:31 PM In reply to

    • Kingsride
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, Apr 10 2013
    • Posts 96
    • Points 1,150

    Re: Floating bins in 2022.12

    Thanks for the replies. 

    Just to answer the various questions posed:

    I always create a brand new set of user settings when moving to a major new software release and have done so with 2022.12.

    I also always create my own workspaces and do not rely on the default ones created by Avid as in the past these have been problematic.

    I DO want to use a docked bin arrangement as in principle is suits the way I prefer to organise my projects so I really would rather not just float everything. Interestingly, on this topic, when I speak to other seasoned editors in the faculty where I work, they too opted to float all their bins as they couldn't get the docking bins and workspaces to work well together.

    I realise it's a work in progress but I really don't like the randomness of the behaviour sometimes.

    I will attempt a screen record next time I'm at the facility.

    On a related topic, when I was trying to create my own Colour Correction workspace I noticed two of the main 'tools' couldn't be called up and placed into my workspace. Namely the CC controls window itself and the three pane viewer. For the life of me I couldn't find a way of calling up these tools like you can with the timeline or the source/record viewer etc. The only way I was able to construct my own workspace was to modify the default one and save that as a new one. Is this really the only way to do it? Even the CC effect mappable button in the command pallete recalls the default CC workspace. 

    Perry 

    Macbook Pro Retina | 750GB | 10.10.5 | MC 8.4.2 | Symphony Option [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Apr 9 2023 9:44 PM In reply to

    Re: Floating bins in 2022.12

    I can confirm that when I made my custom Color workspace, I came to the same conclusion and also used Save As from the Default Color workspace. I use Save Current a lot, but there's a newish Setting that impacts the saving of workspaces that you should be aware of. (I don't use it). I also work fully docked, using two Bin Containers with many tabbed bins.  I can do everything in my core custom workspace including Effects... at least on v2021.12.

    I avoid using Bin Layout feature. I don't run any third-party macro apps but that's just superstition. I would eliminate any third-party apps that are suspect, then re-install those apps as needed.

    I try to keep everything on one large monitor, but I have a second attached for other apps I need while editing. Once inna blue moon, I'll float a bin or Media Tool in the second monitor.

    Are you on Mac? How many monitors? If Mac, you may get some useful ideas in the Mac forum. Perhaps the Avid techs might direct you to further remove certain deep files... I had that experience with them during troubleshooting of my PC when I had screwy behavior on my system a few years ago.  

     

    -Telegram!

     

  • Tue, Apr 11 2023 6:12 PM In reply to

    • therodders
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 6 2011
    • Posts 2
    • Points 20

    Re: Floating bins in 2022.12

    diegovillalba:

    Hi Perry, hope you are well.

    Transition to new GUI was not a straight forward as I was expecting to me when tried to do it just unistalling and upgrading.

    I have to confess that once I invested 30 minutes of my time and wacthed these 2 tutorials, my lifes has been much easier, and since then I love "new GUI", and I wouldn't change it for nothing in the world, and has been even better upgrade in upgrade out.

    Please do as me and watch this... you'll wont regret.

    Let's Edit with Media Composer - What's New in 2019.6 part 1 - The New Interface - YouTube

    Let's Edit with Media Composer - What's New in 2019.6 part 2 - Bins - YouTube

    Hope it helps! All the best!

    Diego

    I've been on 2018 for quite some time and just had to upgrade to 2022. These tutorials have been really helpful. Thanks :D

     

  • Tue, Apr 11 2023 6:16 PM In reply to

    Re: Floating bins in 2022.12

    YOu're welcome therodders I know! Well invested time!

    All the best!

     

      Diego

     

     

    * last cfg * Media Composer 2023.3 * MC | PM 2021.3 * MC | Cloud UX 2021.7 * MC | NM 2021.7 * MC | PM Archive 2021.2 * MC | PS 2021.3. ACSR Media | Composer - ACSR | Nexis - ACSR | Production Management

  • Fri, Apr 14 2023 9:22 PM In reply to

    • Kingsride
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    • Joined on Wed, Apr 10 2013
    • Posts 96
    • Points 1,150

    Re: Floating bins in 2022.12

    I think I have discovered the reason MC is pinning floating bins above everything else. I'm not sure it's an intended feature so I'd appreciate someone explaining the logic behind this behaviour.

    Turns out it's due to my having two host panels, one on each of my monitors. I actually like having docked containers as it suits my logical mind. Before the new GUI, I always tended to arrange my windows in panes without much overlapping and I used tabs a lot. So the new style dockied panes and tabs suit me very well... However....

    It appears MC doesn't like mixing a docked arrangement, with floating bins.

    I find it more intuitive to temporarily open bins, ones that I just need occasionally to access or store something away, as floating bins, rather than finding a place to dock them first.  I can then just do what I need and closie the bins shortly after. Or, if I need to read or amend a lot of text within a bin, it's better to open it and move it to my right-hand monitor where I can read it more easily. However, floating bins, as I mentioned earlier, are permanently pinned on top of a host panel. You just can't bring forward anything if it sits behind it, except for another floating bin.

    If I un-check my host monitors selection thereby floating all the windows that were originally docked on the host panels, these additional floating bins I opened behave just like any normal window and can be hidden by clicking windows behind them.

    So in short, a docked host panel really doesn't work very well with floating bins, unless you're happy moving these bins out of the way every time you need to see something behind them. Each host panel behaves like one giant window and ALWAYS sits BEHIND a floating bin. The two styles of working simply don't mix and match.

    The question is whether this is an intended feature, or an unforeseen consequence of the new host panel / docking architecture. I think it's probably the latter.

    Any feedback appreciated.

    Perry

    Macbook Pro Retina | 750GB | 10.10.5 | MC 8.4.2 | Symphony Option [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Apr 16 2023 6:54 PM In reply to

    Re: Floating bins in 2022.12

    You can use a variety of Windows Key+Shift+Arrow keypresses (noth/south/east/west) to fling the Active Window back and forth across the two monitors, like a pinball machine. Plus there are other Windows+key combos for opening active window full, minimizing, etc. Should work great with a typical macro program or possibly the Streamdeck device. Combine that after opening a bin in Project Tool or using MC's Find Bin then, Float Active Panel tool. I am on Win10Pro v2021.12

     

    -Telegram!

     

  • Thu, Apr 20 2023 3:15 PM In reply to

    • DIESELE
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on Mon, Apr 28 2008
    • Posts 1,288
    • Points 15,915

    Re: Floating bins in 2022.12

    It is horrendous and buggy and I prefer the old way, but am pushing along with 2022.  I cant address your points effectively in text but just a few pointers:

    Have two host panels enabled. Always double click the top bar to make it auto fill the screen.

    I dont bother with containers as they carry irrelevances between projects

    Create youer ONE defined layout - for me its sequences bin bottom left, project top left and 1 or two windows with tabbed bins in them for the rest of the screen.  Create and save this per workspace - or add effects modes DOCKED for effects worklspace etc It MUST Dock or you get crazy priorities

    Always bring your seq bin into your bottom left bin

    Try the same approach with right mon - i like to have a few slim faders top left for eg. DOCK THEM

    You have to learn the CTRL+ALT key presses to dock stuff toghether when you get the elusive white flash

    Someone needs their *** kicking for all this - nothing coule be less intuitive for old hand editors let alone new.

    I'm coping now mind... Took 6 months and help from a kind Philip K here!

    Ultimate 2022.12.1, Blackmagic Intensity Pro, WIN 11 on 7000Mbps M.2 SSD, Nvidia Quadro P4000, Asus Pro Art Z690 i9 12900k 5.0 GHz, 8TB M.2 SSD - its nippy!

     

  • Thu, Apr 20 2023 9:37 PM In reply to

    • Kingsride
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    • Joined on Wed, Apr 10 2013
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    Re: Floating bins in 2022.12

    Thanks All,

    I must admit I do like aspects of the new UI, preferring a tidy layout, but It's not very intuitive and suffers from too many quirks.

    Today two of my docked tools (effect editor and effect palette) would, on launching MC, open floating and detached from where I had initially docked them. No matter how many times I 'saved current workspace' before quitting would persuade them to open where I wanted them. I got totally bored trying.

    Also I do want the option to float the occasional bin or container without facing the hassle of having to move it out of the way to see something behind it. I can see why it's behaving like this, it's just annoying to work with. And no, I don't want to float everything so they work like old school windows.

    I've moved on from getting worked up with the UI and am now just concentrating on why the interface is so miserably slow to work with. Over the last 12 years, MC's performance seems to have been flushed down the toilet!

    Life's too short for this.

    Perry

    Macbook Pro Retina | 750GB | 10.10.5 | MC 8.4.2 | Symphony Option [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Apr 21 2023 9:44 AM In reply to

    • DIESELE
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on Mon, Apr 28 2008
    • Posts 1,288
    • Points 15,915

    Re: Floating bins in 2022.12

    I do sympathise and one vers does have a huge bug with effect modes - try creating new workspaces of you own and assigning those to F keys

     

    I also have to say the few benefits of it are a far snappier timeline and scorching MP4 exports of a quality that negates using 3d party apps. Especially as Adobe Media encoder doesnt work with AVC100 as wrapped by Avid...

    Ultimate 2022.12.1, Blackmagic Intensity Pro, WIN 11 on 7000Mbps M.2 SSD, Nvidia Quadro P4000, Asus Pro Art Z690 i9 12900k 5.0 GHz, 8TB M.2 SSD - its nippy!

     

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