Latest post Thu, Apr 28 2022 9:22 AM by Jeroen van Eekeres. 16 replies.
Page 1 of 2 (17 items) 1 2 Next >
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • Mon, Feb 21 2022 12:04 PM In reply to

    • enuru99
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Mon, Feb 21 2022
    • Posts 0
    • Points 15

    Why does the industry use Avid still?

    I do freelance work as well as work for myself, and I have friends who work in the industry. My closest editing friend does casting editing and everyone uses Premiere. I’ve never heard someone talk highly of the Premiere user experience. As a program that can get the job done, it’s fine https://omegle.onl/. But it crashes so often and has so many flaws that I can’t figure out why editors still use it. As for Avid, once you learn it it’s fine, but to learn it’s a complete mess. People still use old versions and refuse to update for fear of crashes, and I have a friend who on his first day of assistant editing, the main editor had to call Avid support 3 times to deal with separate problems.

    I understand why the industry switched from Final Cut when X first came out, but at this point, Final Cut is imo the best application out there. It pretty much never crashes, and on the once in a blue moon chance that it does crash, it doesn’t lose work ever. There isn’t even a save function because it’s automatic and NEVER loses work.

    In an industry that is so based on doing work efficiently, in a time crunch, that one doesn’t want deleted, why do editors still choose to use the buggiest choice in software?

  • Mon, Feb 21 2022 12:30 PM

    • kiba99
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Mon, Feb 21 2022
    • Posts 1
    • Points 25

    Why is Avid Media Composer so popular in Hollywood?

    I’m in my second year of film school, going for my BFA in video editing. I learned years ago on Premiere Pro, and in my opinion, Premiere Pro is the premiere video editing software. Far more intuitive than anything else I’ve tried. And that brings me to Avid.

    https://nox.tips/ 

    This year, after pretty much mastering Premiere, I’m now being made to learn Avid, as Avid is the industry standard in most major production circles. So I’ve been at it for a few very frustrating months, learning on the Avid. I absolutely can’t stand it, even though I’m becoming relatively proficient at it. It’s unintuitive, overly complicated, and the interface actually LOOKS like it was invented by a dinosaur and hasn’t changed since.

    https://xender.vip/

    My question is... am I wrong? Is there something about Avid that I’m not giving a proper chance? The thing is, I’m mostly just bitching. I HAVE to learn Avid, and I know it’s good to know as many programs and jobs as possible in this industry. It’s just... I don’t like it. Am I wrong? Does anybody else feel the same way? What about it can you tell me in order to let me know that I’m wrong? I just wanna have a discussion about the Avid.

  • Tue, Feb 22 2022 9:07 AM In reply to

    Re: Why does the industry use Avid still?

    I joined these two threads together because they're essentially asking the same question.

    I'll also remind everyone that this is a professional forum. If anyone would like to have a discussion about the pros and cons of different non-linear editing software, that's great. If, on the other hand, things devolve into an internet pissing match of trolling and name-calling, that's not allowed here and the thread will get deleted.

    Media Composer 2022.4 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Blackmagic UltraStudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Tue, Feb 22 2022 10:25 AM In reply to

    • Bruno M
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Feb 11 2010
    • London, UK
    • Posts 912
    • Points 11,685

    Re: Why is Avid Media Composer so popular in Hollywood?

    It's always easy to assume that one's personal experience is the same as everyone else's experience, but Avid Media Composer obviously has some serious advantage over other editing software in certain workflows, otherwise professional editors wouldn't be using it.

    For someone coming from (say) Adobe Premere, it can be a bit of a shock to learn MC, but there are valid reasons to persevere. These stem from it's adoption in the features/professional world as well as the financial rewards that often follow when you're a top Avid editor in these industries.

    As a (now) retired editor who spent over 30 years working on Avid (as well as brief stints on Premiere and FCP), I've seen many people confidently announce the death of MC - all of which have not come to pass.

    I now teach Avid (part-time) to MA film students in London and meet similar reactions from those who are having to come from (principally) Premeire. In my introductory lecture I explain the following...

    Avid Media Composer is (still) the industry standard editing software.

    Nearly all of the films nominated for the Academy Awards for Best Picture (as well as all the films nominated for Best Editing) were edited using Avid Media Composer.

    If you’re going to be working in feature films or episodic television, Media Composer is simply the standard for editing software.  Post facilities are set up to use Media Composer and that is the expected workflow.

    Avid Editors earn more than editors on other platforms. According to Payscale.com, the median US salary for an editor with Avid skills is over $50,000.  For an editor with Premiere skills, $37,475. In Payscale’s survey, Premiere editors topped out at $53,727, top Avid editors made $105,126!

    According to Glassdoor.com, Avid Editors in major markets can expect even higher salaries, getting to over $135,000 pa. The same site currently lists Premiere Editor positions for $40,000 to $51,000.

    So, the question is why is Avid still so prominent if it's so unintuitive and overly complicated?

    Some of it is just unfamiliarity with the differences between Avid and other editing software. Despite youur personal experiences, the general consensus is as follows...

    Avid is generally very stable, and handles large projects well.

    Avid is not really designed as a complete tool for finishing work in terms of effects, grading or audio. Although you can use it (at a pinch) as a finishing tool, this is usually reserved for fast turn-around programmes (such as magazine/daily TV shows) which only require simple grading/audio work.

    Avid is primarily an editing tool, and in markets such as features and long-form drama, that's really what the editor is doing for 95% of the time. That's what top editors are paid to do - simply cut one shot with another. Other professionals will handle VFX, grading, sound mixing etc. So Avid is tasked to do one thing, and it does this very well.

    Avid is designed to function well in large workgroups. Together with the various Avid hardware (Isis, Media Central) it has really got this market to itself. Many large production facilities choose the Avid system because it is rock-solid in terms of stability, durability and performance - day after day.

    Hollywood (and other large post markets) are very risk-adverse. If something works, there's not much reason to change the established workflow, and Avid have been using their workflow in these markets for years. The cost for editing software & hardware is by no means the largest drain on a large budget feature, so even if one could save money by switching editing systems, this is not of much concern, compared with the other problems that would be encountered.

    Avid is one of the best in terms of backward compatibility. You can open projects from ten years ago - try doing that with Premiere! Because of this philosophy of backward compatibility, Avid can often seem slow in realeasing new features. This is one thing that often frustrates Avid users when you compare it with the pace of new features from (say) Adobe, but Avid have to consider the implications with any change in their software, so extensive testing is paramount.

    I could go on, but you get my drift!

    Bruno

    HP Z800, HP G3 Studio, SonnetFusion RAID, Mojo DX, Decklink 4K, Symphony 2020, JVC DTV1910 HD tube monitor, HP Dreamcolor, Avid Artist Color, Avid Transport... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Feb 22 2022 11:30 PM In reply to

    • jwrl
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Melbourne, Australia
    • Posts 8,445
    • Points 98,350

    Re: Why is Avid Media Composer so popular in Hollywood?

    Agree with both posts directly above this one.  I'll add this: if you have been taught on one NLE you will tend to prefer it.  My editor of choice is Lightworks, because Lightworks was what I taught myself in 1991.  However when I was offered my first Avid job I didn't care about it not being like Lightworks, I just got on with it.

    So up until retirement I earned my living mainly editing on Avid, and where I had a choice, Lightworks.  If I had wanted to be a complete finishing facility my tastes would almost certainly have been rather different.  However I preferred a specialised NLE, not a Swiss army knife of post production tools.

    And yes, I have also edited with FCP and Premiere.  I've also played with Vegas and with Resolve.  At the moment as far as I'm concerned you can keep all of them.  But I also recognise that is clearly just an expression of my personal bias, not a judgement of how effective those tools are.

    MC 7.0.4 - Asus P6T Deluxe V2 mobo - Intel i7 920 2.66GHz - Windows 7 Ult64 SP1 - nVidia Quadro FX 1800 - 16 Gbyte low latency DDR3 RAM - Internal 8 Tb... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Feb 23 2022 3:55 AM In reply to

    • jef
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Feb 26 2006
    • Maryland
    • Posts 4,000
    • Points 48,260

    Re: Why is Avid Media Composer so popular in Hollywood?

    I agree with jwrl.  The first NLE you learn is the "best".  Human nature I guess.  I have edited on at least 6 different systems.  Each time I started a new one I complained about having to learn how to do a cut all over again.

    They all have stengths and weaknesses.  The best place to be is being able to choose which one to use for any given project.

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." 2021 iMac w Big Sur [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

  • Wed, Feb 23 2022 8:42 AM In reply to

    Re: Why is Avid Media Composer so popular in Hollywood?

    And I agree as well. I your first NLE is the one you know best. 

    They all get the basic job done. But having worked in UK Broadcast TV the stability of Avid was a deal breaker. 

    Backwards and forwards project compatability crucial and Avid media for long form meant no other NLE could cut it. 

    FCP 7 was an interesting tool but Apple killed that market with FCPX and even today its a non ideal fit with other TV post workflows.

     

    HP Z840 3.1GHZ 20cores 128GB RAM M4000 GPU 1TB NVMe drive HP Z book 17 G2 2.7GHZ Quad core 32GB RAM Nvidia K3100M 1TB SSD drive ACI Moderator. I'm... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hosted Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | www.vet-training.co.uk|

     

  • Wed, Feb 23 2022 8:43 PM In reply to

    • CinéMatica
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Tue, Jun 24 2014
    • Belgium | Europe
    • Posts 251
    • Points 2,995

    Re: Why is Avid Media Composer so popular in Hollywood?

    jwrl:

    I'll add this: if you have been taught on one NLE you will tend to prefer it.

    jef:

    I agree with jwrl.  The first NLE you learn is the "best".

    Pat Horridge:

    And I agree as well. I your first NLE is the one you know best. 

    I don’t agree! Wink In my case it was not the first NLE that I got to know the best. Stick out tongue

    I started with Adobe Premiere 4.2 LE that came with a MíroVIDEO DC30 Plus capture board somewhere in 1996. Embarrassed

    During all these years I tested and used a lot of NLE's, but I never had a more reliable and crash resistant system than Avid.

    Today in 2022, I still can open projects in Media Composer that were made with Xpress Pro back in 2004. Some years ago I had to do this for a client with a project that was 13 years old at that time. Try doing this with all the other NLE's.

    Don't take away my Avid! Cool

     

     

    (Avid 1) HP Z840 | 2x 18 Core Intel Xeon E5-2699v3 / 2.3GHz 35MB | 128GB PC4-17000P 2133MHz / 8x 16GB DDR4 | NVIDIA Quadro P4000 / 8GB GDDR5 / 4x DP 5K... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Feb 23 2022 8:46 PM In reply to

    • ck123
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, Jul 17 2013
    • PA
    • Posts 204
    • Points 2,590

    Re: Why is Avid Media Composer so popular in Hollywood?

    My 2 cents is it's all about time in market. Avid was the first. Not by a couple of months but, in some cases, by years. That gave Avid a lot of early market share and lock in. Just like switching away from an iPhone switching away from Media Composer meant losing a lot of what you already had.

    Flash forward a decade or two and you have people who "grew up" with all the newer entrants in the marketplace and you now have a lot of boutique post facilities.

    So, while Paramount is still using Media Composer, Johnny Post Works is using Premiere. And when Paramount hires Johnny Post Works, guess what Johnny is going to use, Premiere.

    HP zBook 17 G3, z220, HP z240, HP z420, HP z440, HP z840, HP Z4 G4, Dell Precision 3430, Dell Precision 7810, Apple iMac i5 27-Inch (5K, Late 2015). 16GB... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Feb 23 2022 9:57 PM In reply to

    Re: Why is Avid Media Composer so popular in Hollywood?

    ck123:

    My 2 cents is it's all about time in market. Avid was the first. Not by a couple of months but, in some cases, by years. That gave Avid a lot of early market share and lock in. Just like switching away from an iPhone switching away from Media Composer meant losing a lot of what you already had.

    Flash forward a decade or two and you have people who "grew up" with all the newer entrants in the marketplace and you now have a lot of boutique post facilities.

    So, while Paramount is still using Media Composer, Johnny Post Works is using Premiere. And when Paramount hires Johnny Post Works, guess what Johnny is going to use, Premiere.

    I don't think that's true. It's not only about how long it's been alive. Post houses would have upgraded to a different system by now if there were truly a better alternative. They don't like paying Avid lots of money.  

    If you take the time to learn avid you will start to understand WHY it's such a standard system. As others mentioned, Media Composer offers serious advantages over competition; Take the patented Nexidia Script Sync just as one example. 

    Johnny is one isolated example in a big sea of editors. You might find a few other film editors using premiere, but still an overwhelmingly large number edit on Media Composer. Why? Because it's good. It won emmies back in 2020. Try opening a legacy project on any other system, connecting 200 edit suites at the BBC with NewsCutter, organizing terabytes of assets in a database for a long-form film, sending a specific bin to editors... There are lots of good things one can say about Avid. 

    A lot of people tend to complain they don't like Media Composer simply because they can't be bothered to learn it . They are in no position to compare Avid vs something else until they've thoroughly used it and the competition.

    BUT... if you're a freelancer and something else works for you... use that! 

    Editing Movie Magic.

    My Equipment & System Specs

  • Wed, Feb 23 2022 10:28 PM In reply to

    Re: Why is Avid Media Composer so popular in Hollywood?

    ck123:

     

    So, while Paramount is still using Media Composer, Johnny Post Works is using Premiere. And when Paramount hires Johnny Post Works, guess what Johnny is going to use, Premiere.

    You're missing one thing, though: Such a studio would always want to be able to fire and replace anyone they hire, instantly, with any other editor. Which is why most prefer to have their productions cut on Avids, as they can choose whoever they want to replace whoever they originally hired, without needing to start from scratch (which a transfer to a different NLE boils down to).

    Obviously, the more editors out there are fine working on Premiere, the less of an issue this would become for them. Currently, as far as I can tell it's still a factor. 

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 24 2022 12:00 AM In reply to

    • jef
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Feb 26 2006
    • Maryland
    • Posts 4,000
    • Points 48,260

    Re: Why is Avid Media Composer so popular in Hollywood?

    Bruno M:

    Avid is not really designed as a complete tool for finishing work in terms of effects, grading or audio. Although you can use it (at a pinch) as a finishing tool, this is usually reserved for fast turn-around programmes (such as magazine/daily TV shows) which only require simple grading/audio work.

    Avid is primarily an editing tool, and in markets such as features and long-form drama, that's really what the editor is doing for 95% of the time. That's what top editors are paid to do - simply cut one shot with another. Other professionals will handle VFX, grading, sound mixing etc. So Avid is tasked to do one thing, and it does this very well.

    Avid is designed to function well in large workgroups. Together with the various Avid hardware (Isis, Media Central) it has really got this market to itself. Many large production facilities choose the Avid system because it is rock-solid in terms of stability, durability and performance - day after day.

    Bruno's post really underscores the main answer to the question.  At a certain level, clients want specialists working on their project, not the jack of all trades.  This requires bomb proof tools to send material to different people / systems.  While not perfect with Avid, it is much more reliable than Premiere.  FCPX (in my limited experience) was even worse.

    This is not to dump on the jack of all trades.  That is an important part of the marketplace.  But that was not the question.

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." 2021 iMac w Big Sur [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

  • Thu, Mar 3 2022 12:10 AM In reply to

    • ck123
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, Jul 17 2013
    • PA
    • Posts 204
    • Points 2,590

    Re: Why is Avid Media Composer so popular in Hollywood?

    Job ter Burg:

    ck123:

     

    So, while Paramount is still using Media Composer, Johnny Post Works is using Premiere. And when Paramount hires Johnny Post Works, guess what Johnny is going to use, Premiere.

    You're missing one thing, though: Such a studio would always want to be able to fire and replace anyone they hire, instantly, with any other editor. Which is why most prefer to have their productions cut on Avids, as they can choose whoever they want to replace whoever they originally hired, without needing to start from scratch (which a transfer to a different NLE boils down to).

    Obviously, the more editors out there are fine working on Premiere, the less of an issue this would become for them. Currently, as far as I can tell it's still a factor. 

    Job, you misunderstood what I meant here. I wasn't talking about Paramount hiring Johnny as an individual editor to come and work at their facility. I meant hiring Johnny, the company, to work on a production. When it's happened to us the studios and networks did not tell us what software to use. That was our call. We just have to provide the finished deliverable. And, to your point, companies get fired and replaced as well. We've had many a PP and FC project handed to us half done and told "here finish it." But, we were not told we had to finish it with that same application and rarely have we.

    I've used Media Composer since 1998 and still learning every day. I've sparadically used Premiere since 1997. I like Media Composer and I also like Premiere. MC and PP have both done a lot of things right. AND, both have done a lot of things wrong.

    HP zBook 17 G3, z220, HP z240, HP z420, HP z440, HP z840, HP Z4 G4, Dell Precision 3430, Dell Precision 7810, Apple iMac i5 27-Inch (5K, Late 2015). 16GB... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Mar 3 2022 12:31 AM In reply to

    Re: Why is Avid Media Composer so popular in Hollywood?

    Avid is still the standard for collaborative editing - docs, reality, episodic, feature length. FCPX, Adobe Premiere and Resolve all have project sharing but none of them are as successful as AMC. Adobe tried several methods. Adobe Production is now the most current and successful. Ironically, it emulates Avid bin project structure but it is still painful to use on large projects. Even on z8 32 core, 64GB of RAM on a 10Gb storage, it grinds to a halt when opening several projects/bins. Resolve's PostgreSQL method sounded great on paper. Not so much in actual execution.

     

    MC 2022, W10, MSI X299M, Intel 9940X, Gigabyte 3080Ti Waterforce, 64GB RAM, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, BM Mini monitor & Dell UP2718Q. MBP 2019, Big... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Apr 28 2022 4:43 AM In reply to

    • Mercer
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Apr 15 2010
    • UK
    • Posts 753
    • Points 9,700

    Re: Why is Avid Media Composer so popular in Hollywood?

    Bruno M:
    As a (now) retired editor who spent over 30 years working on Avid (as well as brief stints on Premiere and FCP), I've seen many people confidently announce the death of MC - all of which have not come to pass.

    So many of you here I've seen and talked with over the years, now retiring or retired, it's quite moving in a way and I wish you the very best, all of you for the futureYes. I can't quite believe I've been editing now for 33 years, though I can't afford to retire just yet.Big Smile Most of those years, for me, have been on Avid and you all make very good points, particularly Bruno here and Job about the pool of professional editors being Avid based and together with a suitable credit list that usually implies a certain professional experience and standard also.

    I think these days it's probably free Resolve which is used to edit YouTube videos that far outweights any other NLE and although Premiere is popular, in branded and corporate, I am seeing here a move away from it to Avid at the higher end there too. Again because of the need for good experienced reliable editors; and this is the key just as there are other professions that tend overwhelmingly to have the talent concentrated and trained on one major piece of enterprise software.

    It may have been mentioned also but, although features and Oscar winners, get trotted out when talking about Avid, and a big name editor could possibly choose his or her NLE, it has to be remembered the vast core of Avid use and business is in episodic, fast-paced, long running drama and documentary TV and streaming, where there are multiple editors and a huge turn over of them needed, due to moveable schedules and freelance contracts. It is here that consistency in professional standards and training is more crucial than ever and the main reason Avid is by far and away the largest means of earning a good living as a professional editor. A production company or facility needs to be able to hire another editor, at a moment's notice and know that they can sit at that suite and edit, with experience and talent, from the word go. Avid has proven over many years of robust integration that in such a shared, high media volume scenario, it's reliability and talent pool are still absolutely key and crucial to the industry.

    People often talk about an NLE, as though it were a matter of preference: it is no more a choice than choosing the most direct, fastest highway route to commute to work, or choosing the slow scenic route, because you prefer it; as a professional editor it absolutely behoves you to learn and use Avid, if you want the maximum chance of regular and reliable employment, currently, today, as it stands in Film and TV.

     

    MC with Symphony option, 2021.6, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P5200/16GB/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio... [view my complete system specs]
Page 1 of 2 (17 items) 1 2 Next >

© Copyright 2011 Avid Technology, Inc.  Terms of Use |  Privacy Policy |  Site Map |  Find a Reseller