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  • Thu, Oct 14 2021 3:58 PM

    SMPTE bars and tone leaders - Templates

    Hi all, 

     

    Might anyone have/know of a library of universal SMPTE leader templates in 23.98fps, 25fps, 29fps drop-frame, and 30fps with bars and tone that they're willing to share?

     

    Thanks in advance :) 

    https://philipkapadia.com/my-equipment [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Oct 14 2021 4:08 PM In reply to

    Re: SMPTE bars and tone leaders - Templates

    You can import the SMPTE bars from the Avid files

    C:\Program Files\Avid\Avid Media Composer\SupportingFiles\Test_Patterns\HD_1080

    You can create continous tone in MC (or you can download the DPP tone zip file with interupted and glitz tone.

    And build those headbuilds in AVid projects with those frame rates. Then export out to make media files you can link back in to use.

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  • Thu, Oct 14 2021 7:45 PM In reply to

    Re: SMPTE bars and tone leaders - Templates

    SMPTE 709 bars are in the installation folder, under the subfolder Supporting Files / Test Patterns. They are video levels already.

    Tone you can generate in Avid. Open the Meter Menu (button right of the audio meters above the timeline). Select Create Tone Media. 1kHz is the frequency.

     

     

    MC 2021.6, W10, MSI X299M, Intel 9940X, Gigabyte 2080Ti Waterforce, 64GB RAM, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, BM Mini monitor & Dell UP2718Q. MBP 2019, OSX... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Oct 15 2021 10:57 AM In reply to

    Re: SMPTE bars and tone leaders - Templates

    Pat Horridge:

    You can import the SMPTE bars from the Avid files

    C:\Program Files\Avid\Avid Media Composer\SupportingFiles\Test_Patterns\HD_1080

    You can create continous tone in MC (or you can download the DPP tone zip file with interupted and glitz tone.

    And build those headbuilds in AVid projects with those frame rates. Then export out to make media files you can link back in to use.

    Thank you Pat, I was sort of looking at something similar to this: https://youtu.be/59xcx9h-rso which of course is the whole countdown. 

    Are the SMPTE bars in the Media Composer installation 100% accurate? I thought that you need a calibrated video display to generate SMPTE bars for a particular project, otherwise it's wrong? 

    https://philipkapadia.com/my-equipment [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Oct 15 2021 11:31 AM In reply to

    • Mercer
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Apr 15 2010
    • UK
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    Re: SMPTE bars and tone leaders - Templates

    Philip Kapadia:
    Are the SMPTE bars in the Media Composer installation 100% accurate? I thought that you need a calibrated video display to generate SMPTE bars for a particular project, otherwise it's wrong? 

    Yes they are accurate, as long as you import them correctly, i.e 'Do not scale legal to RGB' and full raster. You need a calibrated display not to generate anything (they don't) but to display an external signal accurately, which you can only be really confident about when used in conjunction with a professional video i/o device.

    You can see instantly whether you have imported the bars correctly on the vectorscope - where 100% bars should be exactly in the outer boxes.

    MC with Symphony option, 2021.6, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P5200/16GB/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Oct 17 2021 8:53 AM In reply to

    • luca.mg
    • Top 25 Contributor
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    Re: SMPTE bars and tone leaders - Templates

    Hi there Philip, there's no such a thing as a universal leader, every single broadcaster has its own specs, they're all similiar, but slightly different. Quite annoying, but You'll have to manually roll Your own leader for any given delivery. You'll find several ready to use countdowns over the internet however, but even with countdowns different broadcasters may have different requirements as for duration and the info to display or the content of the last few seconds before program start. If I only had 10 p for every single leader that I've had to build from scratch.... Job Ter Burg kindly used to share some countdowns in his website, don't know if are still over there, nor I remember what they we're made for (film or TV), neither the framerate, but You may want to take a look and see if they still exist and suit Your needs.

    Symphony 21.9, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Sun, Oct 17 2021 10:50 AM In reply to

    Re: SMPTE bars and tone leaders - Templates

    luca.mg:
    Job Ter Burg kindly used to share some countdowns in his website, don't know if are still over there, nor I remember what they we're made for (film or TV), neither the framerate, but You may want to take a look and see if they still exist and suit Your needs.

    They're still there, and are excellent:

    https://www.terburg.com/downloads/index.html

    Also, go see 'Benedetta' in theaters now! :)

    Media Composer 2021.9 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Blackmagic UltraStudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]

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    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Sun, Oct 17 2021 12:21 PM In reply to

    Re: SMPTE bars and tone leaders - Templates

    camoscato:

    luca.mg:
    Job Ter Burg kindly used to share some countdowns in his website, don't know if are still over there, nor I remember what they we're made for (film or TV), neither the framerate, but You may want to take a look and see if they still exist and suit Your needs.

    They're still there, and are excellent:

    https://www.terburg.com/downloads/index.html

    Also, go see 'Benedetta' in theaters now! :)

    Thank you both. Yes, I know about Job Ter Burg's leaders - I spoke to him privately regarding this. The video engineers I know very well and work with don't agree with his statement on his site:

    "Some people mistakenly assume that a 25fps film project (sometimes used in Europe) should have a 25fps leader, but it should not. A film leader is a film leader, 192 frames in length, either counting SMPTE (8 seconds measured at 24fps) or Academy (12 feet of 35mm 4-perf)."

    They say that 25fps projects need 25fps leaders. (I got a long and complicated response from them)

    We're getting someone to make us leaders in all framerates inc dropframe 29.97 which is what they use in the production I'm involved in... but thanks all! I hope this thread might help others in the future :)

     

    PS I need to see Benedetta ASAP. I'm sure it's editing in particular, is really good. I don't think it's out yet though. 

    https://philipkapadia.com/my-equipment [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Oct 17 2021 2:06 PM In reply to

    Re: SMPTE bars and tone leaders - Templates

    On the UK for TV broadcast its pretty standardised now. 

    The DPP tech spec most Broadcasters use has a section with details for the leaders. 

    Most facilities will build a leader say in Avid and export it as a DNx file and then it can be ingested for any project. 

    It would have 20secs of 100% EBU bars with interrupted tone at 1KHz - 18db

    The 7 seconds of countdown clock probably with the facilities logo. Then 3sec of black.

    When that ingested clip is it onto a sequence starting at 09:59:30:00 you end up at 10:00:00:00 for prog start.

    Then a title is added over the clock.

     

    HP Z840 3.1GHZ 20cores 128GB RAM M4000 GPU 1TB NVMe drive HP Z book 17 G2 2.7GHZ Quad core 32GB RAM Nvidia K3100M 1TB SSD drive ACI Moderator. I'm... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hosted Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | www.vet-training.co.uk|

     

  • Sun, Oct 17 2021 4:23 PM In reply to

    Re: SMPTE bars and tone leaders - Templates

    Let me clarify that 25fps statement. This is about film leaders, for reels, on longform threatrical productions. There was an Academy Leader (counting down 12ft of 35mm 4-perf) and then SMPTE created its Universal Leader (counting down 8secs at 24fps). Both line up and have the same sync pop at -3ft = -2sec = -48fr.

    At the time, EBU decided against creating a separate 25fps version (see the bottom of Page 5 here) and suggested to use the same Universal Leader, played back faster (thereby a 'second' no longer lasting an actual second). To this day, I have stuck to that, although I haven't worked at 25fps for theatrical for a very long time.

    While SMPTE seems to have created a whole new range of leaders for digital cinema, at various frame rates (24/25/30/48/etc), I have never encountered them in the real world -- most likely because SMPTE charges a lot for them. I guess it makes sense to have those, but it would also be a lot more convenient if those different leaders were made widely available.

     

    The film leader on my site is designed for used in film editorial (as well as turnovers to labs, sound post, etc), although some have used it on final deliveries. Most post houses I work with have their own leaders, which in my experience have always lined up perfectly with mine. YMMV.

     

    Slate clocks for TV distribution are a different beast.

     

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Oct 17 2021 4:27 PM In reply to

    Re: SMPTE bars and tone leaders - Templates

    Job ter Burg:

    Slate clocks for TV distribution are a different beast.

    Yeah, I think that's the Key here. I get what you're saying, Job. 

     

    https://philipkapadia.com/my-equipment [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Oct 17 2021 6:05 PM In reply to

    Re: SMPTE bars and tone leaders - Templates

    I use the term leader for film based content. I use the term headbuild for TV. 

    HP Z840 3.1GHZ 20cores 128GB RAM M4000 GPU 1TB NVMe drive HP Z book 17 G2 2.7GHZ Quad core 32GB RAM Nvidia K3100M 1TB SSD drive ACI Moderator. I'm... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hosted Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | www.vet-training.co.uk|

     

  • Sun, Oct 17 2021 6:15 PM In reply to

    Re: SMPTE bars and tone leaders - Templates

    Pat Horridge:
    I use the term headbuild for TV. 

    Completely new term to me! A google search leads me to believe that 'head build' is used for the entire bars/tone/slate/countdown section prior to the head of a program. Everyday a learning day.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Oct 17 2021 7:04 PM In reply to

    Re: SMPTE bars and tone leaders - Templates

    Pat Horridge:

    I use the term leader for film based content. I use the term headbuild for TV. 

    Likewise haven't heard of that term before. I'm sure there's a lot more i'll learn from you Pat!

    https://philipkapadia.com/my-equipment [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Oct 19 2021 7:47 AM In reply to

    • Mercer
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Apr 15 2010
    • UK
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    Re: SMPTE bars and tone leaders - Templates

    Philip Kapadia:

    Thank you both. Yes, I know about Job Ter Burg's leaders - I spoke to him privately regarding this. The video engineers I know very well and work with don't agree with his statement on his site:

    "Some people mistakenly assume that a 25fps film project (sometimes used in Europe) should have a 25fps leader, but it should not. A film leader is a film leader, 192 frames in length, either counting SMPTE (8 seconds measured at 24fps) or Academy (12 feet of 35mm 4-perf)."

    They say that 25fps projects need 25fps leaders. (I got a long and complicated response from them)

    I don't think it is particularly helpful to ask questions Phillip and then imply someone like Job, who is well respected here and has offered a very useful resource, is wrong. I'm sure those video engineers weren't wrong but didn't know the reason for that resourceSmile

    The Academy countdown leader and Bars, Tone clock serve two very different functions in two different areas. The countdown was for film sync (Apart from the lab there was a projector loop seperation between picture and optical sound track that had to be manually set often), focus, frame rack, projection line up, whilst the other is for video technical standards calibration and consistency, i.e Bars @100% (Millivolts), 1KHz tone @ -18db, the clock is a production number and company ident and rarely carries a 1 frame tone sync at minus 3 seconds, now. Pre-screen focus and picture/screen line up is still necessary in digital cinemas, therefore the countdown leader has survived.

    MC with Symphony option, 2021.6, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P5200/16GB/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio... [view my complete system specs]
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