Latest post Tue, Jun 16 2020 6:30 AM by camx-media. 83 replies.
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  • Mon, May 4 2020 3:45 AM In reply to

    • cls105
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    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    "Very few gamer pcs have or need dual Xeon, 128GB + EEC ram."

    That's because most games are single threaded and benifit from high clock speeds.

     

    Xeon will under perform compared a 5ghz consumer cpu with games.

    w10, mc 2020.4, diy x299 7940x [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, May 4 2020 9:33 AM In reply to

    • Mercer
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    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    cls105:

    Xeon will under perform compared a 5ghz consumer cpu with games.

    That's why it's 'horses for courses'. If you want to game get a gaming laptop. If you want to edit and finish for high end feature films and broadcast TV, then a dual Xeon will outperform any single cpu gaming laptop by a margin. Avid have some of the most intensive  and rigorous hardware certification processes in the business. I spent many years building my own cheaper rigs because mainly I worked freelance at facilities but I always used Avid certified hardware when I sometimes built a facility. When I came recently to setting up my small facility it was a no brainer. It had be partly portable and I only ever finish for UK HD broadcast, so I didn't need a dual Xeon but I still went with a certified laptop.

     

    MC with Symphony option, 2020.4, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P3200/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, May 4 2020 5:55 PM In reply to

    • cls105
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    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    Mercer:

    cls105:

    Xeon will under perform compared a 5ghz consumer cpu with games.

    That's why it's 'horses for courses'. If you want to game get a gaming laptop. If you want to edit and finish for high end feature films and broadcast TV, then a dual Xeon will outperform any single cpu gaming laptop by a margin. Avid have some of the most intensive  and rigorous hardware certification processes in the business. I spent many years building my own cheaper rigs because mainly I worked freelance at facilities but I always used Avid certified hardware when I sometimes built a facility. When I came recently to setting up my small facility it was a no brainer. It had be partly portable and I only ever finish for UK HD broadcast, so I didn't need a dual Xeon but I still went with a certified laptop.

     

     

    Dual xeon was cool a decade ago.  No need for it anymore.   And imo x299 is better suited for most media creation (I'm fine with someone saying otherwise).  It is the sweet spot for cores and clock speed.  Anyway, im ready for this thread to die now.

    w10, mc 2020.4, diy x299 7940x [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, May 5 2020 3:05 PM In reply to

    • Adman
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    • BlogAuthor
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    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    My cursory understanding is that MC is more "CPU skewed."

    As far as approved systems, you make a great point. But, AVID caters to the consummate professional and has been the industry standard for decades. By encouraging its user base to stick with tested and approved systems, it is offering more assurance that the workflow will be smooth and seamless... and faster. Speed of production and reliability is critical in a post production session. I've been there as a creative director when the editor was having one glitch after another... even while my client was present during the edit session. My two cents.

    Mac Pro, 64GB Ram. 1TB SSD system drive, 250Gb SSD external (media) drive. QHD Ultra wide, thunderbolt LG monitor, MC 2019.12.1. Pro Tools 11 HD (Mbox... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, May 5 2020 5:02 PM In reply to

    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    Adman:

    My cursory understanding is that MC is more "CPU skewed."

    As far as approved systems, you make a great point. But, AVID caters to the consummate professional and has been the industry standard for decades. By encouraging its user base to stick with tested and approved systems, it is offering more assurance that the workflow will be smooth and seamless... and faster. Speed of production and reliability is critical in a post production session. I've been there as a creative director when the editor was having one glitch after another... even while my client was present during the edit session. My two cents.

    Thats a good point. It no help having an H264 exort be 5% fater if you've lost hours due to crashes.

    Also an unstable system really destroy the creative process.

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hostred Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

  • Tue, May 5 2020 5:02 PM In reply to

    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    Adman:

    My cursory understanding is that MC is more "CPU skewed."

    As far as approved systems, you make a great point. But, AVID caters to the consummate professional and has been the industry standard for decades. By encouraging its user base to stick with tested and approved systems, it is offering more assurance that the workflow will be smooth and seamless... and faster. Speed of production and reliability is critical in a post production session. I've been there as a creative director when the editor was having one glitch after another... even while my client was present during the edit session. My two cents.

    Thats a good point. It no help having an H264 exort be 5% fater if you've lost hours due to crashes.

    Also an unstable system really destroy the creative process.

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hostred Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

  • Tue, May 5 2020 8:13 PM In reply to

    • Adman
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    • BlogAuthor
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    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    Yes, regarding the creative process. At least for me, it takes a while before I arrive at that point of nirvana, when you feel like another force is actually doing the work and you are the vehicle for getting it down. ;) That is what I stive for... it is the point at which it stops being work and becomes joy. :) After being interrupted, it can take just as long getting back to that point where you left off... if you are lucky enough to get back to it. Computer glitches are worse... Not that AVID is perfect, but that they realize the critical need to find creative excellence... without the computer software getting in the way.

    If you are serious, get an approved system. IMHO. :)

    Mac Pro, 64GB Ram. 1TB SSD system drive, 250Gb SSD external (media) drive. QHD Ultra wide, thunderbolt LG monitor, MC 2019.12.1. Pro Tools 11 HD (Mbox... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, May 5 2020 11:45 PM In reply to

    • cls105
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    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    An INTEL diy setup and any intel laptop can be rock solid stable very easily... not saying everyone should do it, but saying diy setups are less stable is mis-information.  Intel + qualified windows (currently 1909) + any nvidia gpu (never tried anything else) works 100%.  And stick it in whatever case you want (rackmount included).

    Your point about serious editors should use qualified is laughable imo.  I am serious.. I've made my living as an editor for 15 years (have bought real estate with this career) and would not buy qualified EVER (there's absolutely no need for me).  But I work on my personal setups a lot so this is not a reccomendation for facilities.

     

    But AMD cpu's from my experience is another story.  I'd stay away from that for now (for a Media Composer station).

     

    And.. I would feel confident using my DIY supermicro 10gbe server with 3rd party nexis emulation/bin locking on a small scale series with 3 editors and an assistant.  havent been given the responsibility yet but I want it.

    w10, mc 2020.4, diy x299 7940x [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, May 6 2020 7:06 AM In reply to

    • Mercer
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    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    cls105:

    Your point about serious editors should use qualified is laughable imo.  I am serious.. I've made my living as an editor for 15 years (have bought real estate with this career) and would not buy qualified EVER (there's absolutely no need for me).  But I work on my personal setups a lot so this is not a reccomendation for facilities.

    I've been doing this over 30 years - Avid since '92 -  it's  paid for everything from my kid's education to several houses. There have been very lean years, where I built my own, including Supemicro, but my approved laptop, came with 3 years on site warranty plus Avid support (which I haven't neeed since it's been rock steady) and paid for itself in 2 weeks - why would I mess about again building my own and be losing money? It's good it works for you, you seem to know what you're doing - you said you wanted this thread to die, even though you weren't the OP - so why don't we just agree to differ and leave it there?

     

    MC with Symphony option, 2020.4, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P3200/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, May 6 2020 8:13 AM In reply to

    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    Lots of great points in here but I now see how starting this thread was like opening pandoras box. 

    My situation is that I'm a cameraman/DOP first and an editor second. Much of what I do gets sent to other editors but I am doing more and more editing so need a new rig. 

    I sometimes work for a company that runs HP Z machines in 5 suits . All qualified on Avid storage Interplay. They have an 'Avid specialist' in the tech dept and still it will sometimes crash a few times a day. 

    I understand that a qualified rig is the safe route but I like to build my own systems so will continue down that path. Was about to press go on a £4000 order 2 days ago and I see Intel has announced I10 and Nvidia a new architecture so will hold off for a few weeks until I see what these new developments bring. 

    Also the rig wont just be for MC. Will need to be capable in a number of other Editing apps and finishing programs. 

    Will post back once I hit Buy and  list the parts purchased for anyone that's interested. 

    *****Stay Tuned***** [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, May 6 2020 9:08 AM In reply to

    • Mercer
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    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    camx-media:

    I sometimes work for a company that runs HP Z machines in 5 suits . All qualified on Avid storage Interplay. They have an 'Avid specialist' in the tech dept and still it will sometimes crash a few times a day. 

    I understand that a qualified rig is the safe route but I like to build my own systems so will continue down that path. Was about to press go on a £4000 order 2 days ago and I see Intel has announced I10 and Nvidia a new architecture so will hold off for a few weeks until I see what these new developments bring. 

    It's mainly because a lot of facilities work on the cheap, hanging on to old worn HP workstations and Avid 2018, old seats. I work at a lot whose owners have nice cars and houses, provide many seats for one busy prod co and won't spend a dime upgrading.

    £4000 seems a lot to spend for a self build, Camx - you could get very capable approved system for that. I think waiting for the next big thing is not as good as buying what you need now. As I say gear usually pays for itself quickly. Anyway I'm sure it's going to be a stonking system, so I wish you well. For other apps it usally comes down to getting the most powerful gpu you can, but I can see you know that Wink

     

    MC with Symphony option, 2020.4, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P3200/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, May 6 2020 9:22 AM In reply to

    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    I've built my own in the past and run many approved setups and yes you can build a DIY setup that can be very stable. But you don't know that till you get there.

    If the time you spend researching and souurces and building and then possibly unpicking issues is part of your R&R time then its a hobby you enjoy and the easy route of an approved system would rob you of that.

    And yes facilities with complex setups and many systems, even with approved machines, can have crashes but we know that can happen just with a duff user profile copied in by a freelancer.

    Supporting that sort of setup is only viable with established supported hardware. No Broadcaster or large facility uses anything other than approved setups that I've delivered training to.

     

    So in summary my advice would be that if you just want a reliable stable Avid edit platform then look at an approved setup. You can save cost by looking at systems that have been supported for a while and have slipped down the list of supported machines. Avid tends to continue to support for a good while and I've found that even when a system is nolonger listed as supported it continues to work fine with current versions.

    If you have a passion and skill for building systems then by all means do the leg work and push the technology to the bleeding edge. Just have plasters at hand :-) 

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hostred Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

  • Wed, May 6 2020 9:38 AM In reply to

    • Mercer
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    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    Pat Horridge:

    And yes facilities with complex setups and many systems, even with approved machines, can have crashes but we know that can happen just with a duff user profile copied in by a freelancer.

    Supporting that sort of setup is only viable with established supported hardware. No Broadcaster or large facility uses anything other than approved setups that I've delivered training to.

    Whilst all that is true, I've worked at a lot of facilities over the years, including yours PatWink, where I cut a lot of C4 programmes back in the day. Facilities like VET and The Farm have the best gear and it is well maintained. But whilst a lot of offline editors are non technical, these days, with decentralised programming, there are a lot of very successfull series television production companies who have one partner facility, with a lot of ragged HP workstations, even pre 2018 Avid versions and cheap consumer monitors, using Editshare or worse Elements, as shared storage and underpaid inexperienced assistants. They have been particularly resistant to remote working since they are getting a lot of rental for little investment. The first thing I always do in these cases is go through the settings and machine thoroughly. Not necessary with you guys.

    MC with Symphony option, 2020.4, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P3200/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, May 6 2020 10:24 AM In reply to

    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    Mercer:

    Pat Horridge:

    And yes facilities with complex setups and many systems, even with approved machines, can have crashes but we know that can happen just with a duff user profile copied in by a freelancer.

    Supporting that sort of setup is only viable with established supported hardware. No Broadcaster or large facility uses anything other than approved setups that I've delivered training to.

    Whilst all that is true, I've worked at a lot of facilities over the years, including yours PatWink, where I cut a lot of C4 programmes back in the day. Facilities like VET and The Farm have the best gear and it is well maintained. But whilst a lot of offline editors are non technical, these days, with decentralised programming, there are a lot of very successfull series television production companies who have one partner facility, with a lot of ragged HP workstations, even pre 2018 Avid versions and cheap consumer monitors, using Editshare or worse Elements, as shared storage and underpaid inexperienced assistants. They have been particularly resistant to remote working since they are getting a lot of rental for little investment. The first thing I always do in these cases is go through the settings and machine thoroughly. Not necessary with you guys.

    Thats very true. I was helping a client on a V4.5 system a few days ago. But it was a valid Avid setup in its day and its still working even now.

    I think the complication is when Valid supported Avid systems are used with a hodge podge of other systems including non Avid storage solutions. That an old OS installs makes for a very rough editing experience.

    But imagine how much worse if those workstations were home builds made 10 years ago!

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hostred Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

  • Wed, May 6 2020 11:10 AM In reply to

    • Mercer
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    • Joined on Thu, Apr 15 2010
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    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    Pat Horridge:

    But imagine how much worse if those workstations were home builds made 10 years ago!

    Very trueSmile My old XW8200 workstation lasted 10 years and was still working well with HD, when in finally gave up the ghost.

     

    MC with Symphony option, 2020.4, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P3200/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]
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