Latest post Tue, Jun 16 2020 6:30 AM by camx-media. 83 replies.
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  • Fri, May 1 2020 7:36 PM

    Intel v AMD for MC

    Ok so its a question that keeps getting asked on multiple forums and sites. I thought i had a good understanding but the more i read the cloudier it gets. 

    RIDDLE ME THIS IF YOU WILL?

    Avid only officially supports Intel processors yes?

    Why then have i found a page 

    https://www.amd.com/en/graphics/workstation-media-and-entertainment-solutions-avid-media-composer

    showing suppoort for AMD GPU's if MC doesnt like AMD processors?

    I realise you can pair an Intel CPU and an AMD GPU or vice versa but surely its better to 'stay inhouse' and use the same brand for all?

    Im about to build a new system which will be in order a  MC / Resolve / Photoshop rig. Apprently Resolve loves Quadro cards as it does most of its work through the GPU. What does MC prefer? processor or GPU?

    Such a pain in the $$$$.

     

    Do any of you have real world sucess with a fill AMD system? 

     

    thanks in advance for any thoughts.

    *****Stay Tuned***** [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, May 1 2020 8:09 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    Camx....

    Here is what I know from the god of all things Avid hardware soecifications, requirements and testing - Dave Pimm.

    Apple – Intel CPUs only (with AMD graphics)

    Lenovo – only Intel CPUs in workstations, Nvidia only graphics, no AMD graphics options

    HP – only Intel CPUs in workstations, mostly Nvidia graphics, some AMD graphics options

    Dell – only Intel CPUs in workstations, mostly Nvidia graphics, some AMD graphics options

    Avid video always requires higher end systems – workstations.  That is what we qualify.  Our partners provide us with systems and those systems do not have AMD CPU options. 

    Why don’t we test low end consumer systems with AMD processors (or even Intel processors)? 

    Historically, consumer systems don’t perform well, have lower quality, lower CPU life expectancy and generally are not meant to run 24/7 doing video editing.

    Hope that helps.

    Marianna

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  • Fri, May 1 2020 8:53 PM In reply to

    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    Thankyou as always Marianna. 

     

    While I appreciate the company line in your response  I guess I'm just trying to dig a little deeper. I totally understand as a company that if you do go down the line of approving systems you can only test and certify so many. 

     

    I've been with Avid as my main edit program for the best part of 15 years now and mostly only used approved systems. I agree components that stand the test of time are important but feel computing has come so far that it's a whole new world out there in relation to getting market share. If the 'avid' hardware window is too narrow  a whole host of potential future editors may just pass on by. 

     

    So back to my point at hand. Can you or anyone clarify if MC as more CPU or GPU skewed? Also is there a sweet spot for the Video card as in max performance MC can use from said GPU? Quadro cards start pricey and go to silly levels to which I'm sure MC would never need to go? 

     

    While buying an off the shelf certified machine is obviously The way to go for MC support the ability to pick and build a system from a wider list of components would be amazing. 

     

    Regards

     

    Charlie

     

    *****Stay Tuned***** [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, May 1 2020 9:00 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    Charlie

    The rub here is we dont test them.  HP, Dell, Lenovo, Apple etc send us our systems to test based on what both companies feel is the best to support the feature set we have ( usually also provide a 2 year woindow at min so you arent out having to buy a new CPU again ).

    I can take your last comments back to Dave and see what he says........   but I do know we do not have the bandwidth to test a huge wider list of components right now.

    I will get him to respond but it might not be until Monday.

    marianna

     

     

     

    Director of Online Communities and Forums/Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]

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  • Fri, May 1 2020 9:30 PM In reply to

    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    Thanks you. 

     

    To be honest thou I guess my original question was more geared towards those in the Avid sphere that have tried a different path with component set up than to you good folks at Avid directly. 

     

    That being said I appreciate your response to my questions. 

     

    After researching possible configs one thing that has become clear to me is just how far 'gamers' can push their imtel and AMD systems and components. This could only help to prove component longevity as MC would.never push such components so far. 

    *****Stay Tuned***** [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, May 2 2020 5:45 AM In reply to

    • cls105
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    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    everyone is tired of this question.  don't do it.  search the forums.

    don't feel like elaborating. x299x is good bang for buck now.  Or that new intel 10 core.

    or you could gamble with amd, and risk bad performance.  some say its good, others dont.

    w10, mc 2020.4, diy x299 7940x [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, May 2 2020 9:24 AM In reply to

    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    As already said. Most people using Avid want it to be stable. The most stable setup is using Intel CPUs.

    Why would I trade stability for a marginal performance increase? And for the most part the thing that slows down an NLE is the editor. Not the processes.

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hostred Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

  • Sat, May 2 2020 9:43 AM In reply to

    • Mercer
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    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    camx-media:
    After researching possible configs one thing that has become clear to me is just how far 'gamers' can push their imtel and AMD systems and components. This could only help to prove component longevity as MC would.never push such components so far. 

    This is simply not true. Most gamers pamper their machines. Professional workstations for Avid are often worked very hard day in day out with little to no attention in less than ideal facility conditions, where they get punished and abused. Nothing is more demanding than serious 4K and + finishing of high end film and TV, outside of supercomputers. Very few gamer pcs have or need dual Xeon, 128GB + EEC ram. Quadros are about precision over Geforce. Workstations are built for durability and reliabilty.

    Whilst you don't need the full monty to be able to edit you will appreciate the solidness of pro workstations - in the end the investment pays off, often quite quickly.

    MC with Symphony option, 2020.4, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P3200/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, May 2 2020 2:56 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    Folks.....

    Avid  did show interest in the new AMD Ryzen Threadripper V3 CPUs due to high core count and next gen PCIe interface.  However, MC was not built for high core count so the performance is on par with an HP Z6/Z8.  Also, AMD has not yet shipped a high end graphics card with PCIe gen 4 so there is no advantage with GPU acceleration at the time. 

    Our big 3 OEMs continue to ship workstations with Intel CPUs. GPU options are about 80% Nvidia graphics & 20% AMD graphics (Lenovo ships only Nvidia).  Options for these workstations ONLY include NV Quadro series  or AMD Radeon Pro series cards. 

    They do NOT qualify consumer/gaming cards. That is the main reason that Avid also does NOT qualify consumer/gaming graphics cards. 

    For the questions camx asked

    MC is both CPU and GPU focused.  There is a load balancing algorithm that determines the performance of the graphics card (amount of VRAM, CUDA cores, PCIe transfer speed, etc). This determines how many effects will be sent to the GPU during playback/render/transcode.  If customer buys a low end P620, almost no GPU acceleration.  Choose a RTX 5000 and the split will be close to 50/50.

    Will AMD CPUs work with MC?  Avid has just started to test with the latest AMD Ryzen Threadripper CPUs.  No other AMD CPUs have been tested.  We will watch the market and determine if there is interest. 

    Avid continues to qualify AMD Radeon Pro GPUs.  You can find which ones are qualified in the config guides for each qualified system.

    MC is compiled with Intel CPU libraries. We used the same MC to test with AMD Ryzen Threadripper V3 and did not find any issues.   That does not mean that ALL AMD CPUs will work with MC.  We don’t know which will work as we have not tested any other AMD CPUs.

    For the customer that wants to build their own system and wants a recommended GPU,   buy the NV RTX 4000 or 5000 – latest gen Nvidia card with highest performance. For a low end workstation, buy the Nvidia P2200.

    Marianna " and Dave "

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  • Sat, May 2 2020 4:14 PM In reply to

    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    Now that's a comprehensive reply. 

     

    Thanks Marianna and Dave. 

     

    Answered most of my questions cheers. 

     

     

    *****Stay Tuned***** [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, May 2 2020 10:58 PM In reply to

    • cls105
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    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    Pat said: "Why would I trade stability for a marginal performance increase? And for the most part the thing that slows down an NLE is the editor. Not the processes."

     

    1) This is completely irrelivent.  I've seen no idication that AMD gives a performance increase while editing in Media Composer.  In fact it was super laggy when I used Ryzen a couple years ago.

     

    2) Snappy editing IS important.  Editing off ssd is a joy compared to a portable self powered usb drive (and 7200rpm drives).

     

    There's no trade off here.  But AMD is a massive gamble and I've had horrible responsiveness in the past (can't speak on the latest generations).  If you like to hit play and have your playback start as quickly as possible (as I do), then be very skepticle of AMD.  I diy all my machines but have had the best luck with Intel and Media Composer (im sure other sotware works very well on AMD).

    w10, mc 2020.4, diy x299 7940x [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, May 3 2020 4:14 AM In reply to

    • TVJohn
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    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    Wow, reminds me over the ancient Ford vs Chevy skirmishes.

    Certainly there has been renewed resergence in AMD processors, they have made significiant inroads into the High end supercomputer market, much new design has found its way into new workstation products

    Conversly Intel has had delayed new product issues recently, hey if you are selling half a Billion parts a year why push the envelop?

    Not emphasized is the needed focus on a clean operating system with only those programs necessary for the task at hand.

    The only sugestion with an AMD system is to use workstation quality mainboard, memory, and power supply.

    Dell Display U2713HM(2560x1440), AMD FX8350 8core, AMD 990FX mobo, 32gig-DDR3-1600, Quadro K620/GTX260/core 216, Audigy2zs, 1TB SSD system drive, 2TB SATA... [view my complete system specs]

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  • Sun, May 3 2020 9:22 AM In reply to

    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    cls105:

    Pat said: "Why would I trade stability for a marginal performance increase? And for the most part the thing that slows down an NLE is the editor. Not the processes."

     

    1) This is completely irrelivent.  I've seen no idication that AMD gives a performance increase while editing in Media Composer.  In fact it was super laggy when I used Ryzen a couple years ago.

     

    2) Snappy editing IS important.  Editing off ssd is a joy compared to a portable self powered usb drive (and 7200rpm drives).

     

    There's no trade off here.  But AMD is a massive gamble and I've had horrible responsiveness in the past (can't speak on the latest generations).  If you like to hit play and have your playback start as quickly as possible (as I do), then be very skepticle of AMD.  I diy all my machines but have had the best luck with Intel and Media Composer (im sure other sotware works very well on AMD).

     

    To clarify I was addressing the suggestion that AMD increased performance (as suggested by others) isn't tested by Avid as qualified and therefore risks stability issues. That is relevant to an editor on a system.

    And yes if an unsupported CPU causes laggy operation in an app then any processing speed gains are negated.

    Of course editing off an SSD can be done on both AMD and intel systems so thats irrelevant. And yes snappy editing is important hence my advice that supported hardware is used rather than experiment with unsupported hardware.

    My post promoted using supported Intel hardware and I stand by that I also stand by my initial quote:

    "Why would I trade stability for a marginal performance increase? And for the most part the thing that slows down an NLE is the editor. Not the processes."

    I do find stability relevant. And I can assure you even the fastest editor wastes billions of CPU clock cycles during editing.

    Snappy performance isn't directly related to CPU speed once you get beyond a certain speed. Even a modest performance laptop can be very snappy if it has the right hardware and OS setup and is using the right storage.

     

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hostred Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

  • Sun, May 3 2020 11:42 AM In reply to

    • LDV20
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    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    I have been  researching for a new build.  I agree in staying with INTEL.  For sure -stability is far more important to me than a bit faster performance.   Looking at X299X-MB withI9 10920X - I stay away' from AMD - wont even use them in my office machine.  I find the intel has always been more reliable in stability and a operational point view.

    Just my expierence other people might love AMD/

     

    L

    Symphony 2020.5 - Win 10 pro (1903), Asus PrimeZ270 with i7 7700 cpu, Quadro P2000,(441.28) 64gig memory, 500gig SSD system drive, WD 5TB,and 2TB media... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, May 4 2020 3:32 AM In reply to

    • cls105
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    Re: Intel v AMD for MC

    TVJohn:

    Wow, reminds me over the ancient Ford vs Chevy skirmishes.

    Certainly there has been renewed resergence in AMD processors, they have made significiant inroads into the High end supercomputer market, much new design has found its way into new workstation products

    Conversly Intel has had delayed new product issues recently, hey if you are selling half a Billion parts a year why push the envelop?

    Not emphasized is the needed focus on a clean operating system with only those programs necessary for the task at hand.

    The only sugestion with an AMD system is to use workstation quality mainboard, memory, and power supply.

     

    No, this is not ford vs chevy.  Both of those vehicles are tested on highway and city streets.

    Media composer performed horribly on my 1st gen ryzen because the developers never developed for it.

    Your anology is about fanboy-ism.  That's not what this is about (with media composer).

    w10, mc 2020.4, diy x299 7940x [view my complete system specs]
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