Latest post Wed, May 6 2020 10:35 AM by knejmann. 13 replies.
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  • Sat, Jan 4 2020 4:32 PM

    • LKJ JKL
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    Does the Video Quality Menu affect Mixdowns

    AFAIK, you must select full quality (in the Video Quality Menu at the bottom of the timeline) when you create a video mixdown of your sequence.

    Is this true?

    Can someone please confirm this?

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  • Sat, Jan 4 2020 5:13 PM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: Does the Video Quality Menu affect Mixdowns

    Well there is the following:

    http://community.avid.com/forums/p/197150/882571.aspx#882571

    But I seem to remember a longer discussion about this that might have implicated a bug.  Can not find that right off the bat.

    That said, I do not think I have ever seen the Video Quality tab have an impact on Mixdowns.  Edit to Tape?  Yes, but ....

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.12.9|OS 10.14.x - iMac Pro 2019 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

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  • Sat, Jan 4 2020 8:36 PM In reply to

    • LKJ JKL
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    Re: Does the Video Quality Menu affect Mixdowns

    Thanks for the link! But I too remember that there IS an impact... hmm...

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  • Sat, Jan 4 2020 8:40 PM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: Does the Video Quality Menu affect Mixdowns

    Should be easy to test.  I am on Mac, so that might make difference.  Will try to remember to do this on Monday.

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.12.9|OS 10.14.x - iMac Pro 2019 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

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    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Sat, Jan 4 2020 11:01 PM In reply to

    Re: Does the Video Quality Menu affect Mixdowns

    It shouldn't affect the quality. But there was a bug once and it did. Most experienced users ensure the video quality setting is high just to be sure.

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  • Sun, Jan 5 2020 12:21 AM In reply to

    • cls105
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    Re: Does the Video Quality Menu affect Mixdowns

    I feel like this can easily be tested no?  mix down all the ways you want.  Apply them on the top layers, and compare the layers with a fulll screen monitor.

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  • Mon, Jan 6 2020 8:46 PM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: Does the Video Quality Menu affect Mixdowns

    Just tested this with MC 2018.12.8 on a mac OS 10.14.1

    I see no quality difference between mixdowns made at 10bit green and either full yellow or yellow green Video Quality Menu Settings when measuring with external waveform and vector scopes as well as visual inspection on Sony OLED HD broadcast monitor.

    To be sure, you need to check on your own system.

    Test took less than 5 minutes.

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.12.9|OS 10.14.x - iMac Pro 2019 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

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  • Tue, Jan 7 2020 12:48 PM In reply to

    • LKJ JKL
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    Re: Does the Video Quality Menu affect Mixdowns

    I accidentally mixed down a full program with video quality set to green/yellow -

    and, surprisingly, I couldn't find a difference on both the Avid and the client monitor.

     

    That was my first reason for asking the question here...

    Then I wondered if maybe there was a difference you couldn't see.

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  • Wed, Jan 22 2020 8:26 AM In reply to

    • knejmann
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    Re: Does the Video Quality Menu affect Mixdowns

    LKJ JKL:

    AFAIK, you must select full quality (in the Video Quality Menu at the bottom of the timeline) when you create a video mixdown of your sequence.

    Is this true?

    It's a good idea in some cases at least.

    One case is if you have footage on the timeline that is in a 10-bit codec and color graded - could be s-log. If that is unrendered and mixed down when in "full quality" there can be noticably more banding than if it's mixed down in "full quality 10-bit".

     

    Media Composer 2018.12.11 - Windows 10 - Dell 8520 - Blackmagic Decklink Studio 4K - Interplay and NEXIS storage - Avid Artist Color. [view my complete system specs]

    Kåre Nejmann

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  • Wed, Jan 22 2020 1:27 PM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: Does the Video Quality Menu affect Mixdowns

    knejmann:

    LKJ JKL:

    AFAIK, you must select full quality (in the Video Quality Menu at the bottom of the timeline) when you create a video mixdown of your sequence.

    Is this true?

    It's a good idea in some cases at least.

    One case is if you have footage on the timeline that is in a 10-bit codec and color graded - could be s-log. If that is unrendered and mixed down when in "full quality" there can be noticably more banding than if it's mixed down in "full quality 10-bit".

    knejmann,

    If you see my post just a couple up, I used DNx HQX (originally ProRes 444) from an Arri Alexa.  Definitely 10 bit.  No issues.  Can you provide some source material I can test that you believe will show this issue that you see?  I am just not getting that result.

    Also, what version are you seeing this on?  I have a memory that this did occur on a specific version.

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.12.9|OS 10.14.x - iMac Pro 2019 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Wed, Jan 29 2020 2:52 PM In reply to

    • knejmann
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    Re: Does the Video Quality Menu affect Mixdowns

    Hi Jef,

    I've set up a test that should demonstrate this.

    On V1 place a paint effect and make a rectangle that covers most of the screen. Mode: solid, Color HSL 255 - 0 - 52

    Add another rectangle on top. Mode: gradient, HSL 255 - 0 - 33

    You now have a very low contrast gradient.

    Now on V3 add a Color Correction Effect to increase the contrast. I used a curve with two points (0 -> 21) and (102 -> 255) in 8-bit values.

    If you switch the timeline quality between "Full Quality" and "Full Quality 10-bit" you should see that the first shows a lot of banding.

    Now make a videomixdown to in both modes. On the attached image you can see the difference.

    Warning: This is how it works in 2018.12.7. I've tested it in 2018.12.9 and found that the results there depend on the bit depth of the mixdown codec. This looks like a bug and Avid is investegating this (MCCET-3414). A workaround is to render the effects before mixdown - if you need to mixdown to an 8-bit codec.


    Media Composer 2018.12.11 - Windows 10 - Dell 8520 - Blackmagic Decklink Studio 4K - Interplay and NEXIS storage - Avid Artist Color. [view my complete system specs]

    Kåre Nejmann

    Danish Broadcasting Corporation - DR
    Aarhus, Denmark 

  • Sun, Feb 2 2020 5:01 PM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: Does the Video Quality Menu affect Mixdowns

    I will try and replicate this if I have a chance this week.

    But two things worries me about you test. 

    First, making the gradation inside Avid. I understand you wish to eliminate possible import / linking errors. But I have to say I do not trust the Avid paint and title tools much.  Big Smile  I will try with a grad made in AE at 16bit and sent to DNx HRx.

    Second you wrote about mixdown to an 8-bit codec.  That should always create a banding issue with certain grads so I am not sure what you are suggesting there.

    Thanks,

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.12.9|OS 10.14.x - iMac Pro 2019 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Sun, Mar 22 2020 1:59 PM In reply to

    • knejmann
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    Re: Does the Video Quality Menu affect Mixdowns

    jef:

    I will try and replicate this if I have a chance this week.

    Digging up an old thread here :-) Did you by any chance have a chance to replicate this?

     

    jef:

    Second you wrote about mixdown to an 8-bit codec.  That should always create a banding issue with certain grads so I am not sure what you are suggesting there.

    I'm suggesting that reading the full 10-bit precission of a source clip does matter a lot if that clip is graded heavily - even if the output codec is 8-bit. And that the timeline video quality settings affect not only the bit depth of the output from the timeline but also how the source images are read and processed.

    Media Composer 2018.12.11 - Windows 10 - Dell 8520 - Blackmagic Decklink Studio 4K - Interplay and NEXIS storage - Avid Artist Color. [view my complete system specs]

    Kåre Nejmann

    Danish Broadcasting Corporation - DR
    Aarhus, Denmark 

  • Wed, May 6 2020 10:35 AM In reply to

    • knejmann
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    Re: Does the Video Quality Menu affect Mixdowns

    Short update: In version 2018.12.11 of Media Composer Video Quality does not - as far as I can tell - affect mixdown quality :-) Instead the precission (bit depth) the images are processed with is the same as for rendering: Media Tool --> Render --> Effects Processing.

    Media Composer 2018.12.11 - Windows 10 - Dell 8520 - Blackmagic Decklink Studio 4K - Interplay and NEXIS storage - Avid Artist Color. [view my complete system specs]

    Kåre Nejmann

    Danish Broadcasting Corporation - DR
    Aarhus, Denmark 

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