Latest post Sat, Jan 4 2020 4:21 PM by Rihafilm. 5 replies.
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  • Thu, Jan 2 2020 11:00 PM

    • Scott
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    • Joined on Wed, Nov 30 2011
    • Washington State
    • Posts 24
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    FrameFlex in 4K and downscaling to 1080 - Best Practices?

    Greetings,

    This might be a newbie question, but I'm having trouble getting decent quality in final product when I shoot in 4K and zoom using FrameFlex and then downscale to 1080.

    My current workflow:  Shooting a simple speaking presentation in 4K, single shot, fairly wide angle.  Doing initial editing in a 4K project (edits, insert graphics, powerpoint, and applying FrameFlex zooming to camera shots to add variety.)  When 4K editing is done, I open the timeline in a 1080 project, which automatically creates a duplicate timeline in the new project resolution (1080) which I then export to a final file for viewing/uploading.  The material in the timeline that was originally full-scale 4K (no FrameFlex) looks fine when downscaled to 1080, as I'd expect; but the parts of the timeline where FrameFlex is applied to the video, look fuzzy, especially when zoomed close to 2x (which in theory should still give me a full 1080 lines of resolution, but the downscaled zoomed 4K video doesn't look nearly as crisp as un-zoomed video shot on a 1080 camera).  Is this just the way things are, or is there some gross flaw in my workflow?  Or something else I am missing?

    Thanks in advance for any advice.

    Windows 10, 64-bit Intel Core i9-9900 CPU @3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM NVIDIA Quadro P600 Graphics [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Jan 3 2020 5:06 AM In reply to

    • jef
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Feb 26 2006
    • Maryland
    • Posts 3,742
    • Points 44,890

    Re: FrameFlex in 4K and downscaling to 1080 - Best Practices?

    I have never worked that way so I would have to test it.  I always start work in an HD sequence if I am delivering HD.  I would suggest you try that and see if it works better.

    Also, how are you monitoring?  Are you using an AJA or Blackmagic card to feed a HD monitor?  If you are using a UHD monitor to evaluate an HD image, remember, the HD is being upconverted to UHD. This does not help the image ....

    Jef

     

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.12.9|OS 10.14.x - iMac Pro 2019 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Fri, Jan 3 2020 6:21 PM In reply to

    Re: FrameFlex in 4K and downscaling to 1080 - Best Practices?

    What version of MC are you using?

     

    If you are in the 2018 versions, they just fixed a bug in the newest release 2018.12.9 that fixes the bug that was causing the Frameflexed footage to be poor quality.

    All PC Win 10 - 11 MC/Symphony Nitris DX 2018.12.5 - Interplay 3.6/90TB Mirrored Avid ISIS 5500 [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Jan 3 2020 9:30 PM In reply to

    • scocklin
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Maryland
    • Posts 673
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    Re: FrameFlex in 4K and downscaling to 1080 - Best Practices?

    Flex Frame works shooting in 4K (UHD) and editing in 1080.  So once you bring your footage into a 4k (UHD) project switch the format over to 1080, then reframe and zoom. Also keep this in mind, 4K or UHD is only as good and the camera and most importanly the lens you use to film with. I use a Sony F5 and Canon cinema primes and sometime zoom in 2X for a sharp image that is as long as I keep my focus sharp while filming.

    HP Z800 2x 3.46GHz Hex Core X5690, 96GB Ram, Windows 10, Samsung SSD 1TB, Nvidia Quadro K4000, GTX 1080 FTW, DeckLink SDI 4K, Avid MC-2018.12.7 , MacBook... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jan 4 2020 12:21 AM In reply to

    • Scott
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, Nov 30 2011
    • Washington State
    • Posts 24
    • Points 330

    Re: FrameFlex in 4K and downscaling to 1080 - Best Practices?

    Thanks to all who have answered, I appreciate your time.  I'll work on these suggestions.

    Windows 10, 64-bit Intel Core i9-9900 CPU @3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM NVIDIA Quadro P600 Graphics [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jan 4 2020 4:21 PM In reply to

    • Rihafilm
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Mon, Jul 19 2010
    • Posts 100
    • Points 1,335

    Re: FrameFlex in 4K and downscaling to 1080 - Best Practices?

    Hey Scott, 
    be aware that the picture quality FrameFlex produces is not very good in general. Any other DAW I have worked with produces much better looking downscales.
    In addition all 2019 versions of MC suffer from a FrameFlex bug that can lead to even worse picture quality. I've reported this bug on September 7 and till this day hasn't been fixed...

    My suggestion: after you've completed your edit export an AAF and finish your project with Resolve. It will save you a lot of headaches und will produce much better quality.
    If you want to stay inside Media Composer only use FrameFlex at 100% zoom level (until the bug is finally fixed) and sharpen your clips to compensate the very soft image produced by FrameFlex.

    MC 2020.9, DNxIO 11.5, Windows 10 x64 Pro, 2x Xeon E5-2630 v3, Quadro M4000 (452.06), 64GB RAM, RAIDdeluxe 6Gb SAS 96TB 16-bay RAID-6 [view my complete system specs]
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