Latest post Mon, May 11 2020 11:34 AM by Rihafilm. 55 replies.
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  • Sun, Jan 5 2020 12:52 PM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
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    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    Rihafilm:

    A little update on this issue:

    Avid Customer Care was able to reproduce this bug and has confirmed that all Media Composer versions from 2018.12.7 to 2019.8 on Windows 10 are affected. It seems to work fine on Mac, though.
    The latest confirmed version without the bug is 2018.12.3. 

    So if you are running a Media Composer version from 2018.12.7 to 2019.8 on Windows 10 and plan to finish a project that uses a lot of frameflexed shots anytime soon you should consider rolling back to 2018.12.3.
    Or just export an AAF and finish the project in Resolve (much better downscaling quality than frame flex!).

    Avid Customer Care also told me that having a better frameflex was one of the top 10 feature requests voted for in Avid ACA and added "Improvements will happen in future versions."
    Let's hope that this will happen sooner than later. The quality of frame flex even without the bug leaves very much to be desired to say the least.

    Did Avid ever create a defect number for this?

    Camera(s) PXW-X70, HDR-FX1, Hero 6 Black | MC 2020.6 | QT 7.7.9 | Continuum 2020.5 | Sapphire 2020.5 | Mocha Pro 2020.5 | Titler Pro 7 | Windows 10 Pro... [view my complete system specs]

    Steve

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  • Sun, Jan 5 2020 1:26 PM In reply to

    • Rihafilm
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    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    BarkinMadd:
    Did Avid ever create a defect number for this?

    Sorry, I don't know. I only know my case number (Case : 03781302).

    There's a workaround for this bug btw:

    use the console command (tools > Console) and type
    EDO ACPLCPU
    Then disable, then enable the track monitor on the left side of the timeline (Box that determines what track you are looking at)

    I don't know what this does exactly and what sideeffects it might have.
    We decided to switch to Resolve for finishing so there was no need for us to play around with it.

    MC 2019.7, DNxIO 11.2, Windows 10 x64 Pro, 2x Xeon E5-2630 v3, Quadro M4000 (431.02), 64GB RAM, RAIDdeluxe 6Gb SAS 96TB 16-bay RAID-6 [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Feb 4 2020 3:04 PM In reply to

    • alexdetig
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    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    OK AVID SUPPORT!!!!

     

    THIS IS ANNOYING!!!!  YOU ARE NOT REPLYING!!!!

    COLLEAGUES HAVE NO CLUE!!!

     

     

    HELP US!!!   NOW!!!!

     

    Its a really big and annoying software issueAngry

  • Tue, Feb 4 2020 4:20 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    Rihafilm:

    BarkinMadd:
    Did Avid ever create a defect number for this?

    Sorry, I don't know. I only know my case number (Case : 03781302).

    There's a workaround for this bug btw:

    use the console command (tools > Console) and type
    EDO ACPLCPU
    Then disable, then enable the track monitor on the left side of the timeline (Box that determines what track you are looking at)

    I don't know what this does exactly and what sideeffects it might have.
    We decided to switch to Resolve for finishing so there was no need for us to play around with it.

    Rihafilm.....

    I believe this was fixed in 2018.12 and is also slated to be fixed in 2020.2 ( which is in public beta now and can be downlaoded from the DL center on avidcom )

    Marianna

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  • Tue, Feb 4 2020 5:00 PM In reply to

    • Rihafilm
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    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    Thanks for the info, Marianna.
    So happy when we can finally use FrameFlex again without limitations.
    Btw. the beta is for MAC only :(
    but good idea to do public betas.

    Any news on ProRes for Windows? Was hoping for a 2019.12 christmas present but Santa didn't deliver ;)

    MC 2019.7, DNxIO 11.2, Windows 10 x64 Pro, 2x Xeon E5-2630 v3, Quadro M4000 (431.02), 64GB RAM, RAIDdeluxe 6Gb SAS 96TB 16-bay RAID-6 [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Feb 4 2020 5:56 PM In reply to

    • alexdetig
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    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    Sorry to say.

    On MAC 2019.12 fixed nothing. Issue still there....

     

     

  • Tue, Feb 4 2020 10:20 PM In reply to

    • Rihafilm
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    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    alexdetig:

    Sorry to say.

    On MAC 2019.12 fixed nothing. Issue still there....

     

    Did't know this was a problem on Mac as well.
    Thought this was a windows only bug. At least that's what support told me...

    MC 2019.7, DNxIO 11.2, Windows 10 x64 Pro, 2x Xeon E5-2630 v3, Quadro M4000 (431.02), 64GB RAM, RAIDdeluxe 6Gb SAS 96TB 16-bay RAID-6 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 6 2020 7:32 PM In reply to

    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    I can verify it's an issue on Macs also. We have not upgraded to the latest version, so I'm not sure if that fixes it, but the console command (EDO ACPLCPU) shared earlier works for Macs too - we tried it on 2019.7 and 2019.11.

  • Fri, Feb 21 2020 5:06 PM In reply to

    • BenoitM
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    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    Marianna:

    I believe this was fixed in 2018.12 and is also slated to be fixed in 2020.2 ( which is in public beta now and can be downlaoded from the DL center on avidcom )

    Marianna

    Is it MCCET-3237 (fixed in 18.12.9) ?

    Can someone pls confirm before I perform the update in the middle of a large project...otherwise I'll have to change the rendering interpolation quality...

    (I'm still on 2018.12.7 and discovered this thread after spending 2 or 3 hours t'shooting blurry UHD clips in HD project...I couldn't believe the workflow I was using since a few year now could be broken....no way I can embrace the idea of updating to 2019.X or 2020 before I finish this long HD multicam show recording, where pan&scan inside a UHD camera clip is used about 150 times....)

     

    MC 2018.12.10 (+Symphony)/BCC2019 12.5.2/RED 5.6; BlackMagic Ultrastudio Mini Monitor+Recorder (11.4.1); DELL Precision 5530 - Intel Core i7-8850H 2.6... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Feb 21 2020 5:20 PM In reply to

    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    I can't verify the fix in the latest software, but if you're just looking for a quick fix, the method buried somewhere in this thread worked well for our 7 MC workstations: 

    1. In Avid MC, open the Console (Tools/console)
    2. Type EDO ACPLCPU into the box and enter.
    3. Unrender any clips using frameflex and toggle your timeline monitor.
    4. Voila!
  • Fri, Feb 21 2020 5:52 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    It was fixed in......2018.12.9 and MC 2019.12 according to our bug database.

    Marianna

    Director of Online Communities and Forums/Customer Advocate [view my complete system specs]

    marianna.montague@avid.com

    mobile 813-493-6800

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  • Fri, Feb 21 2020 10:10 PM In reply to

    • Rihafilm
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    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    Marianna, are you sure about this beeing fixed in 2019.12?

    Support sent me this mail in mid December:

    "Media Composer 2019.12 will be released shortly. Unfortunately this bug fix didn't make the cut. This is however fixed in MC 2018.12.9 (available on the Avid Download Center), and it will most likely be in the version after MC 2019.12."

    And this is what they sent me a few days ago:

    "I'm still waiting for the next releases with this fix. It will be fixed in MC 2020.x when it's out, and in MC 2019.12.x when that patch is out. I have no dates for them yet, but they are most likely not too far away"

    MC 2019.7, DNxIO 11.2, Windows 10 x64 Pro, 2x Xeon E5-2630 v3, Quadro M4000 (431.02), 64GB RAM, RAIDdeluxe 6Gb SAS 96TB 16-bay RAID-6 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Feb 23 2020 3:34 PM In reply to

    • BenoitM
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    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    I've just installed 2018.12.10. and did some frameflex+interpolation comparative tests.

    Bottom line: even with 18.12.10, Standard (Bilinear) is significantly sharper than Advanced (Polyphase) in frameflex reframing.

    Scenario: a UHD (3840x2160) H.264 25p AMA clip in a 1080i50 sequence; due to shooting conditions and camera model, the clip is not extremely sharp (still sharper than a HD 1080 clip), but a bit noisy.
    The clip has no source frameflex applied (i.e. Source settings: Image size = raster dimension) , and the timeline clip frameflex settings are:
    Size = 75
    Rotation = 0.3

    The test consisted of watching the sequence in 5 different versions both on a full HD (consumer) TV set and on the composer monitor (magnified), at normal speed or frame-by-frame.
    The results, from softest to sharpest (subjectively):

    #1
    sequence with unrendered AMA clip is transcoded to DNxHD 185X, with "Raster Dimensions"=Project dimensions (proxy off), "linked soure scaling/quality"=Full and "Apply source transformations/frameflex"=enabled (Interpolation = Advanced (polyphase))
    #2
    Same as #1 but with "Apply source transformations/frameflex"=disabled
    #3
    sequence with AMA clip is rendered to DNxHD 185X with Interpolation = Advanced (polyphase)
    #4
    same as #3 but Interpolation = Standard (bilinear)
    #5
    sequence with unrendered AMA clip (Interpolation = Standard (bilinear))


    Remarks:
    #2 and #3 are very hard to distinguish ! IOW, with Advanced (polyphase), there is no obvious benefit of using frameflex to reframe the UHD clip vs. scaling up by the same amount a HD transcode of the clip !!!
    This is unexpected, as #2 (and #1) is effectively a 75% crop into a HD clip, while #3 is a "lossless" 75% crop into a source UHD clip, then scaled down to HD...When looking closely at magnified regions of #2 and #3, it seems that #2 has more aliasing on sharp horizontal edges, so it is as if the lower res is compensated by the better quality (?) of the resampling filter used to scale up the HD clip.

    #1 and #2 are very different, #1 being significantly softer. This is also unexpected, as the only difference is the checkbox "Apply source transformations/frameflex", while there is NO scaling/rotation occurring at the source level; I have no good guessplanation for this significant difference;(in both cases, the clip's timeline frameflex/spatial adapter is still present, resulting in a scaling up of a HD clip). Transcoding with "Raster Dimensions"=Project dimensions (proxy off) is not the smart thing to do, but it's for testing / comparison purposes.

    Remain the clear winners: reframing the UHD clip using frameflex with Interpolation = Standard (bilinear) (#4), and its sibling, the same played unrendered (green dot frameflex/spatial adapter) (#5)!
    It looks like there is some improvement in 2018.12.10 vs. 2018.12.7 (used when I first faced this issue) when using Advanced (polyphase), but Standard (bilinear) still wins hands down in the subjective test in this particular situation/project/configuration.

    Comparing #4 vs. #3, when grossly zooming into the composer monitor, it appears that the jaggies of the aliased horizontal edges are slightly more pronounced but smaller and narrower with Bilinear than with Polyphase, as if the *resampling* was done differently with Polyphase vs. Bilinear, not just the filtering !!! The net result when watching the video at normal size/speed is that somewhat counter-intuitively, Bilinear does NOT imply more visible aliasing artefacts despite using more rough filtering !!

    In conclusion, while I admit Advanced (polyphase) may yield better results (balance between sharpness and antialiasing) in some other cases, for my particular project (with slight Z rotation in frameflex), where I need to keep maximal sharpness, Standard (Bilinear) is definitely the way to go.

    (PS: I wonder if simple upscaling with 3D Warp (clip res=project res, no frameflex), would fare differently with Bilinear vs. Polyphase - has someone tested this ?)



    MC 2018.12.10 (+Symphony)/BCC2019 12.5.2/RED 5.6; BlackMagic Ultrastudio Mini Monitor+Recorder (11.4.1); DELL Precision 5530 - Intel Core i7-8850H 2.6... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Feb 23 2020 3:40 PM In reply to

    • alexdetig
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    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

  • Sun, Feb 23 2020 3:41 PM In reply to

    • alexdetig
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    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    What about MAC? Any update news?

     

     

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