This is an ongoing issue that pops up randomly.
I have linked and then transcoded a group of files to ProRes HQ in MC 2018.12.7 (have seen this on other versions also).
I now want to export those files as ProResHQ .mov files.
I select the file, choose Output > Export to File > QuickTime Movie > Same as Source / Use Avid Codecs / Video and Audio / Keep as Legal Range / 16:9 square / Direct Out Audio
I get the following:
Warning: no clips in the sequence were found to have resolutions supported for Same As Source QuickTime export. According to Media Creation Settings (Render tab), the sequence wil be exported as: 1080p/23.976, Apple ProRes HQ, rather than Same As Source. Do you wish to continue?
So many things about this are odd.
1. These are clips, not sequences.
2. They are Apple ProRes HQ!!
3. Pressing Continue gets me the file I need which I believe has used the SAS export process. Why do I say that? Because sometimes I do NOT get this warning and the files process just as quickly. And a relink of the files created after the warning show no difference from their parents when inspected via scopes.
This same process also sometimes occurs when I AM exporting from a sequence and know for sure there is only one codec involved. And just using Autosequence to make these clips sequences does not change the outcome - the warning can still occur.
And when you are trying to process a LOT of files, this need for manual intervention really stinks.
Jef
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Jef Huey
Senior Editor
Hey man - my two cents on this:
Remember that ProRes isn't an Avid codec. I know you know that, but let me explain: You're still bringing a foreigner into another world in a sense. I think Avid associates "same as source" with Avid codecs. At least that's how I always viewed it.
When you export, don't do same as source. Just do custom, and select the Apple ProRes codec you're using. That should keep the export pipeline focused and clear. Do you agree? I haven't done tests on both methods.
Now... You said you get inconsistent messages: I'm at a loss there. But in an Avid world, I'll bet same as source is still gonna try and apply some type of Avid codec to it, and if not it will fall back on your render settings for the project and assume it has to render everything.
kyler boudreau | kylerboudreau.com | writedirect.co
Kyler:Remember that ProRes isn't an Avid codec. I know you know that, but let me explain: You're still bringing a foreigner into another world in a sense. I think Avid associates "same as source" with Avid codecs. At least that's how I always viewed it.
Thanks for the response Kyler. I think we may disagree here on a couple of things.
First, when you consolidate a native ProRes .mov to Avid ProRes .mxf you are taking the essence out of the .mov wrapper and making a .mxf wrapped version in the Avid media managed world. When you transcode a non ProRes codec to Avid ProRes .mxf, again it goes into the Avid media managed world.
Take a look at the following Avid doc:
http://resources.avid.com/SupportFiles/attach/Avid_Supported_Video_File_Formats.pdf
Avid is pretty clear that ProRes is a Native Codec.
Kyler: When you export, don't do same as source. Just do custom, and select the Apple ProRes codec you're using. That should keep the export pipeline focused and clear. Do you agree? I haven't done tests on both methods.
I have tested this extensively and have read others here who also agree that when you have Avid ProRes .mxf media in your Avid, the highest quality export to a .mov file is to use Same As Source. The generally accepted method to make a transparent ProRes export of a mixed codec sequence is to do a mixdown to Avid ProRes MXF and then SAS that to .mov. Just as the consolidate from .mov to .mxf is just a rewrap, the SAS of .mxf to .mov is only a rewrap. Using the Custom (or as some call it - classic ) export forces the media through an old Quicktime engine and gives a poor quality result.
My tests were to get a high quality ProRes HQ .mov, link an consolidate in Avid. Make that cllip a sequence in Avid and SAS that sequence. Take the original and result into AfterEffects and inspect using Difference Matte. If you choose a Custom out of Avid and then check the original and result in AE, you will see quite a difference (pun accepted).
All that supports my comfort with my workflow. The question remains the inconsistency of the error.
Puzzling.
Well good to know! I'm surprised that the Quicktime export is using an old engine that effects quality. That's no bueno. So... I didn't help you at all, but you enlightend me, lol. Thank you!
Hi there,
You've possibly solved this issue by now, but if not, in the SAS settings, do not choose "Use Avid Codecs". This usually works when I'm dealing with ProRex 422 Exports.
Cheers, Ted
"Pisces mortui solum *** flumine natant" - "Only dead fish go with the flow"
Wren: Hi there, You've possibly solved this issue by now, but if not, in the SAS settings, do not choose "Use Avid Codecs". This usually works when I'm dealing with ProRex 422 Exports. Cheers, Ted
Have you ever closely compared results if you did a test using both methods? I have not. But an interesting idea. My concern is if you do not select "Use Avid Codecs" then the old QT engine would kick in. And I DO know that that is not good.
Interesting. I haven't done a side by side test - Quicktime wise. But I haven't run into any issues upon delivery to networks for Digital uploads etc. or seeing any degradation in the file picture quality. But perhaps a full tech spec comparison may find some quirks.
Ted
Some ProRes files, specifically those created by third party encoders like FFMPEG, are not detected correctly. Can you post a screenshot of the video column?
DQS
www.mpenyc.com
Wren: Interesting. I haven't done a side by side test - Quicktime wise. But I haven't run into any issues upon delivery to networks for Digital uploads etc. or seeing any degradation in the file picture quality. But perhaps a full tech spec comparison may find some quirks. Ted
When I originally tested this, it was pretty simple.I loaded Avid color bars into a sequence. I exported once to ProRes HQ using the “classic QT” export. And then I did a mix down to ProRes MXF in Avid. I put that in a separate sequence and did a Same As Source export.I then linked the results back into Avid placing the resulting linked files on layers above the original Avid color bars.Went into Color correction and looked at the scopes to compare before and after. Because I have them I was also using external scopes being feed by AJA Kona IO card.The “classic” exports showed obvious differences. The ProRes mxf mix down / SAS showed virtually no difference. I was sold. I NEVER use the “classic QT” export any more.I will try the same test with an unchecked “Use Avid Codecs”. To be honest, I never even thought of this.Jef
EDIT: Plus there is the big bonus that the Mixdown / SAS export is generally faster the the old QT engine.
Great...post the results. I'm curious to see the difference.
Maybe I'm wrong on this, but AFAIK if you export using Avid Codecs and want to play the resulting file on another computer, that computer must have the Avid codecs installed.
I'd love to know the results too!
A bit off topic here, but important I think.
There is one thing to reinforce about the "Same As Source" export tool that not everyone understands. It means what is says.
By that I mean if your sequence has a mixture of codecs and data rates, so will your export - but all in one file rather than a sequence with lots of individual clips. And this is generally a BAD thing. I learned this the hard way.
That is why doing a mixdown to your codec of choice - ProRes in this thread (sort of) - and then eliminating all video except the mixdown before SAS is the wise thing to do.
But really you want to explore the AMA File export or MXF Op1a exports. They do all of this in one step. Problem is that currently, ProRes is not one of the choices and .mxf is the only wrapper option. Good news is that finally more organizations are accepting - even requesting - MXF Op1a .mxf.
Oh man that's good to know! Thanks for explaining this.
My workflow is all for online. So I'm typically throwing out a Quicktime that goes into Apple Compressor and then is uploaded to Vimeo or YouTube.
Apple Compressor does recognize MXF I think - I know it can wrap as MXF. So if it does, what does this save vs SAS? Just the pain of duplicating a sequence and toasting all of the video besides the mixdown?
Kyler: So if it does, what does this save vs SAS? Just the pain of duplicating a sequence and toasting all of the video besides the mixdown?
So if it does, what does this save vs SAS? Just the pain of duplicating a sequence and toasting all of the video besides the mixdown?
Basically, yes. Choose a codec from the list that is good quality for what your are doing that Compressor likes. This can be the fastest / highest quality way out of Avid.
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