Latest post Sun, Sep 8 2019 8:34 PM by Kyler. 3 replies.
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  • Fri, Sep 6 2019 10:17 PM

    • jef
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Feb 26 2006
    • Maryland
    • Posts 3,601
    • Points 43,355

    Same As Source oddity

    This is an ongoing issue that pops up randomly.

    I have linked and then transcoded a group of files to ProRes HQ in MC 2018.12.7 (have seen this on other versions also).

    I now want to export those files as ProResHQ .mov files.

    I select the file, choose Output > Export to File > QuickTime Movie > Same as Source / Use Avid Codecs / Video and Audio / Keep as Legal Range / 16:9 square / Direct Out Audio

    I get the following:

    Warning: no clips in the sequence were found to have resolutions supported for Same As Source QuickTime export.  According to Media Creation Settings (Render tab), the sequence wil be exported as: 1080p/23.976, Apple ProRes HQ, rather than Same As Source.  Do you wish to continue?

    So many things about this are odd.

    1. These are clips, not sequences.

    2. They are Apple ProRes HQ!!

    3. Pressing Continue gets me the file I need which I believe has used the SAS export process.  Why do I say that?  Because sometimes I do NOT get this warning and the files process just as quickly.  And a relink of the files created after the warning show no difference from their parents when inspected via scopes.

    This same process also sometimes occurs when I AM exporting from a sequence and know for sure there is only one codec involved.  And just using Autosequence to make these clips sequences does not change the outcome - the warning can still occur.

    And when you are trying to process a LOT of files, this need for manual intervention really stinks.

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.12.9|OS 10.14.x - iMac Pro 2019 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Sun, Sep 8 2019 7:27 PM In reply to

    • Kyler
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, Feb 26 2014
    • Boudreau
    • Posts 33
    • Points 385

    Re: Same As Source oddity

    Hey man - my two cents on this:

    Remember that ProRes isn't an Avid codec. I know you know that, but let me explain: You're still bringing a foreigner into another world in a sense. I think Avid associates "same as source" with Avid codecs. At least that's how I always viewed it. 

    When you export, don't do same as source. Just do custom, and select the Apple ProRes codec you're using. That should keep the export pipeline focused and clear. Do you agree? I haven't done tests on both methods.

    Now... You said you get inconsistent messages: I'm at a loss there. But in an Avid world, I'll bet same as source is still gonna try and apply some type of Avid codec to it, and if not it will fall back on your render settings for the project and assume it has to render everything.

    Macbook Pro Retina, 2.7GHz Quadcore, 16GB RAM. [view my complete system specs]

     

    kyler boudreau | theatereleven.com

     

     

  • Sun, Sep 8 2019 8:17 PM In reply to

    • jef
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Feb 26 2006
    • Maryland
    • Posts 3,601
    • Points 43,355

    Re: Same As Source oddity

    Kyler:

    Remember that ProRes isn't an Avid codec. I know you know that, but let me explain: You're still bringing a foreigner into another world in a sense. I think Avid associates "same as source" with Avid codecs. At least that's how I always viewed it.


    Thanks for the response Kyler.  I think we may disagree here on a couple of things.Big Smile


    First, when you consolidate a native ProRes .mov to Avid ProRes .mxf you are taking the essence out of the .mov wrapper and making a .mxf wrapped version in the Avid media managed world.  When you transcode a non ProRes codec to Avid ProRes .mxf, again it goes into the Avid media managed world.


    Take a look at the following Avid doc:

    http://resources.avid.com/SupportFiles/attach/Avid_Supported_Video_File_Formats.pdf

    Avid is pretty clear that ProRes is a Native Codec.

    Kyler:

    When you export, don't do same as source. Just do custom, and select the Apple ProRes codec you're using. That should keep the export pipeline focused and clear. Do you agree? I haven't done tests on both methods.

    I have tested this extensively and have read others here who also agree that when you have Avid ProRes .mxf media in your Avid, the highest quality export to a .mov file is to use Same As Source.  The generally accepted method to make a transparent ProRes export of a mixed codec sequence is to do a mixdown to Avid ProRes MXF and then SAS that to .mov.  Just as the consolidate from .mov to .mxf is just a rewrap, the SAS of .mxf to .mov is only a rewrap.  Using the Custom (or as some call  it - classic ) export forces the media through an old Quicktime engine and gives a poor quality result.

    My tests were to get a high quality ProRes HQ .mov, link an consolidate in Avid.  Make that cllip a sequence in Avid and SAS that sequence.  Take the original and result into AfterEffects and inspect using Difference Matte.  If you choose a Custom out of Avid and then check the original and result in AE, you will see quite a difference (pun accepted).

    All that supports my comfort with my workflow.  The question remains the inconsistency of the error.

    Puzzling.

    Jef

     

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.12.9|OS 10.14.x - iMac Pro 2019 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Sun, Sep 8 2019 8:34 PM In reply to

    • Kyler
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, Feb 26 2014
    • Boudreau
    • Posts 33
    • Points 385

    Re: Same As Source oddity

    Well good to know! I'm surprised that the Quicktime export is using an old engine that effects quality. That's no bueno. So... I didn't help you at all, but you enlightend me, lol. Thank you!

    Macbook Pro Retina, 2.7GHz Quadcore, 16GB RAM. [view my complete system specs]

     

    kyler boudreau | theatereleven.com

     

     

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