Latest post Thu, Apr 25 2019 1:42 PM by Martin in Chicago. 11 replies.
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  • Wed, Apr 24 2019 4:45 PM

    Why does my 1080i look worse in Avid than Premiere?

    This is not, and I hope it does not devolve into, an Avid vs. Premiere conversation. I love Avid, it is my tool of choice, I root for it at every opportunity. This is a question about what I am currently experiencing and what I hope will ultimately be exposed as user error.

    I'm working with a bunch of 1080i/59.94 footage shot on, I believe, a Sony FS7. My MC project is set to 1080i/59.94 as well. I have the Video Quality Menu set to Full Quality 10-bit. I transcoded all the footage, but, upon discovering this issue, I have gone back to the original untranscoded clip and the problem is the same.

    There are several green screen interviews and, in the one that brings the issue to my attention, the subject is wearing a bright pink jacket. This over a well lit green screen provides pretty strong contrast.

    During playback I am seeing jagginess and subtle ghosting. This becomes more evident and problematic when I apply Boris Primatte Studio to key out the background. However, when I import the same clip in Premiere, I get a much cleaner edge, no jagginess. See illustration.

    Do I have a setting wrong somewhere?

    Martin

    Comparison

    MC 2018.11.0, OS 10.13.6, Early 2009 Nehalem MacPro4,1, 2 X 2.6 GHz Quad-Core updated with Samsung 850 EVO 1 TB system drive, 32 GB RAM and ATI Radeon... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Apr 24 2019 4:53 PM In reply to

    Re: Why does my 1080i look worse in Avid than Premiere?

    Are you looking at an external monitor or at the UI on a computer screen?

    Media Composer 2020.12 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Windows 10 Pro [view my complete system specs]

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  • Wed, Apr 24 2019 5:02 PM In reply to

    Re: Why does my 1080i look worse in Avid than Premiere?

    Both. Either.

    MC 2018.11.0, OS 10.13.6, Early 2009 Nehalem MacPro4,1, 2 X 2.6 GHz Quad-Core updated with Samsung 850 EVO 1 TB system drive, 32 GB RAM and ATI Radeon... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Apr 24 2019 5:05 PM In reply to

    Re: Why does my 1080i look worse in Avid than Premiere?

    Hmm, it looks like my illustration didn't post.  Can't I just paste a Dropbox link into the Image window?

    MC 2018.11.0, OS 10.13.6, Early 2009 Nehalem MacPro4,1, 2 X 2.6 GHz Quad-Core updated with Samsung 850 EVO 1 TB system drive, 32 GB RAM and ATI Radeon... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Apr 24 2019 5:16 PM In reply to

    • jdrouette
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    Re: Why does my 1080i look worse in Avid than Premiere?

    If you go to the "Options" tab, you can add a file attachment.

    Avid Media Composer 2020.12 Symphony option, Blackmagic Design UltraStudio 4K Mini (Desktop Video Application v12.0), macOS 11.1, iMac Pro (2017) 10-Core... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Apr 24 2019 5:47 PM In reply to

    Re: Why does my 1080i look worse in Avid than Premiere?

    jdrouette:

    If you go to the "Options" tab, you can add a file attachment.

    Thanks. Let's see if that works this time.

    Martin


    MC 2018.11.0, OS 10.13.6, Early 2009 Nehalem MacPro4,1, 2 X 2.6 GHz Quad-Core updated with Samsung 850 EVO 1 TB system drive, 32 GB RAM and ATI Radeon... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Apr 24 2019 10:11 PM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: Why does my 1080i look worse in Avid than Premiere?

    Hi Martin,

    In Avid, in an interlace project, when you are looking at a still frame, you are only seeing Field 1.  In Premiere, one can choose to see Field 1, Field 2 or (what I think you are seeing) both Fields.

    For fun, temporarily change the project to 29.97p.  This will force Avid to show you Both fields.

    Good luck,

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.12.9|OS 10.14.x - iMac Pro 2019 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

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    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Wed, Apr 24 2019 10:20 PM In reply to

    Re: Why does my 1080i look worse in Avid than Premiere?

    Well, no, I understand that Jef. I'm showing a still frame just for illustration purposes. But playback shows more jagginess and edge artifacts as well—very similar to the still. This becomes even more evident when I apply a Primatte key.

    It almost looks as if I have the fields inverted or it's only playing one field or somethin.

    Martin

    MC 2018.11.0, OS 10.13.6, Early 2009 Nehalem MacPro4,1, 2 X 2.6 GHz Quad-Core updated with Samsung 850 EVO 1 TB system drive, 32 GB RAM and ATI Radeon... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Apr 24 2019 11:36 PM In reply to

    Re: Why does my 1080i look worse in Avid than Premiere?

    Looking at your image, the difference is weird. Even more so if you look at the inner elbow, where the Premiere still appears to show more jagged edges than in Avid, where the other two points in the image you point out, it is vice versa.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Apr 24 2019 11:44 PM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: Why does my 1080i look worse in Avid than Premiere?

    Do you normally map advance by field anywhere?  If not, do so, then go field by field on a section with motion to see if you fields are inverted. If they are in the wrong order, there is a field invert effect now in Avid.

    That said the Ultrakeyer in Premiere is better than the keyer in Avid.

    Not sure I see what Job points out.  But it has been a long day and my eyes are toast.

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.12.9|OS 10.14.x - iMac Pro 2019 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Wed, Apr 24 2019 11:51 PM In reply to

    Re: Why does my 1080i look worse in Avid than Premiere?

    I see what Job is talking about. See the new illustration. That is odd. I'll check fields tomorrow. I do have that mapped, but I cannot tell you the last time I needed to use it.

    I'm not using Avid's keyer; I'm using Primatte Studio from Boris. In both applications.

    Martin

     


    MC 2018.11.0, OS 10.13.6, Early 2009 Nehalem MacPro4,1, 2 X 2.6 GHz Quad-Core updated with Samsung 850 EVO 1 TB system drive, 32 GB RAM and ATI Radeon... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Apr 25 2019 1:42 PM In reply to

    Re: Why does my 1080i look worse in Avid than Premiere?

    jef:
    …go field by field on a section with motion to see if you fields are inverted. If they are in the wrong order, there is a field invert effect now in Avid.

    Good call Jef, but not it. Moving along field by field, the fields appear to be in the proper order. But, since there's very little significant movement in this interview, I also tried Field Swap and that only made things slightly worse.

    As much as I was hoping this was simply some sort of editor error, I am starting to feel like there is a fundamental problem in the source footage. I'm just not clear what that issue is. And why does the footage look better (though still not perfect) and, more importantly, key better in Premiere?

    When I get the time I will export a test of the keying from both applications to check those results.

    Martin

    MC 2018.11.0, OS 10.13.6, Early 2009 Nehalem MacPro4,1, 2 X 2.6 GHz Quad-Core updated with Samsung 850 EVO 1 TB system drive, 32 GB RAM and ATI Radeon... [view my complete system specs]
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