Latest post Fri, Dec 21 2018 12:03 AM by George Angeludis. 13 replies.
Page 1 of 1 (14 items)
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • Mon, Dec 17 2018 12:42 PM

    • Adrian Redmond
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, May 28 2014
    • Channel 6 Television Denmark
    • Posts 180
    • Points 2,535

    Cleaning up rendered/pre-computed files

    I'd be interested in heraing how other editors clean up their storage when a project is completed.

    Back in my days of editing on Liquid, we had the option to "delete all rendered files for this project" (though unfortunately not "for this timeline sequence only") - so the rule was to delete all rendered files, then reopen the sequences that one wished to retain in a rendered state and re-render these. (So that if in some days/weeks you reopen the project/sequence you don't have to wait for a re-render, but everything else renderwise has been cleaned).

    I haven't tried this on MC 8.5.3. yet, and I suspect that there is some data piled up over the last few weeks that could be disposed of. I dee there are some options under the Timeline>Render menu, but I am not clear as to how to apply them to achieve the same goal as describe above.

    Any words of advice out there? Thanks!

    Avid Media Composer v. 8.5.3. with Symphony Option on HP Z820 Dual Intel E5-2640 6-core HT 2.5GHz CPU 32GB RAM NVidia Quadro K4000 Graphics on Win7x64... [view my complete system specs]

    Adrian Redmond
    Owner / Producer / Editor
    Channel 6 Television Denmark

  • Mon, Dec 17 2018 1:23 PM In reply to

    Re: Cleaning up rendered/pre-computed files

    There's a good discussion of this topic here:

    https://community.avid.com/forums/t/85632.aspx

    Pay particular attention to the posts by Kenton VanNatten, and our dear, departed Larry Rubin. Both of them know what they're talking about.

    Media Composer 2020.10 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Windows 10 Pro [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Mon, Dec 17 2018 1:41 PM In reply to

    • Adrian Redmond
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, May 28 2014
    • Channel 6 Television Denmark
    • Posts 180
    • Points 2,535

    Re: Cleaning up rendered/pre-computed files

    Thanks Carl - Can one create a default render folder on our shared storage so that all render files will reside there, so at least we keep render files separate from master clips etc.?

    (As far as I kan see, one can only define the drive on which rendering will take place, not the folder in which render files will be stored - back in the Liquid days it was useful to render on a separate drive to the media files, thus gaining some drive bandwidth during playback of a sequence that had many rendered files.)

    Avid Media Composer v. 8.5.3. with Symphony Option on HP Z820 Dual Intel E5-2640 6-core HT 2.5GHz CPU 32GB RAM NVidia Quadro K4000 Graphics on Win7x64... [view my complete system specs]

    Adrian Redmond
    Owner / Producer / Editor
    Channel 6 Television Denmark

  • Mon, Dec 17 2018 1:55 PM In reply to

    • Adrian Redmond
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, May 28 2014
    • Channel 6 Television Denmark
    • Posts 180
    • Points 2,535

    Re: Cleaning up rendered/pre-computed files

    The Media Tool appears to be a useful way of identifying precomputed (rendered) media, but considering that the task is often about deleting data to save space, it seems off that I can't find a column to select that actually shows the size in GB/MB/KB) of the individual renered files, so that I can evaluate whether there is any benefit from deleting them? Is this possible?

     

    Avid Media Composer v. 8.5.3. with Symphony Option on HP Z820 Dual Intel E5-2640 6-core HT 2.5GHz CPU 32GB RAM NVidia Quadro K4000 Graphics on Win7x64... [view my complete system specs]

    Adrian Redmond
    Owner / Producer / Editor
    Channel 6 Television Denmark

  • Mon, Dec 17 2018 2:41 PM In reply to

    Re: Cleaning up rendered/pre-computed files

    Adrian Redmond:
    an one create a default render folder on our shared storage so that all render files will reside there, so at least we keep render files separate from master clips etc.?

    Sure, but remember that render files are not only dissolves and resizes (i.e. things that are easy to re-create by re-rendering them) but also things like imported matte key graphics (i.e. not easy to re-create if you no longer have the original graphic to batch import). Make sure you know what you're deleting.

    Media Composer 2020.10 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Windows 10 Pro [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Mon, Dec 17 2018 2:45 PM In reply to

    Re: Cleaning up rendered/pre-computed files

    Adrian Redmond:

    The Media Tool appears to be a useful way of identifying precomputed (rendered) media, but considering that the task is often about deleting data to save space, it seems off that I can't find a column to select that actually shows the size in GB/MB/KB) of the individual renered files, so that I can evaluate whether there is any benefit from deleting them? Is this possible?

    Not that I'm aware of. In my experience you only gain drive space through render clearing when you have projects with lots of effects, or if you haven't cleaned the system out in a while and you have lots of projects. In either of those cases, I'd just blow the whole lot of them away (keeping in mind the part above about matte keys) without worrying about which ones were big or small.

    Media Composer 2020.10 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Z-Book G6 17", i7-9850H 2.60GHz, 32gb RAM, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000, Windows 10 Pro [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Mon, Dec 17 2018 10:56 PM In reply to

    Re: Cleaning up rendered/pre-computed files

    http://djfio.com/mdv/

    Nothing comes closer even if it's not updated anymore.

    The latest Media Tool is very good also at seperating render files.

    However the best way is to render at a separate drive so whatever is rendered there it can go away.

    Just Ctrl+5 and set the Render drive to another one.

    Desktop PC

     

    Corsair RM750X|Asus P8Z68 Deluxe(Gen3)|i7 2600K@4.4|Corsair 32G DDR3|PNY Quadro P2000(442.92)|Samsung 850 Pro SSD(OS) 256 GB|2x1TB Crucial MX500@RAID 0|2x500GB Mushkin SSD@RAID 0|LG BH16NS40|W10 Pro 64bit|Media Composer Software 2020.6 with Symphony Option on Dongle|2xHP 22'' Monitors|M-Audio AV30 Speakers.

     

    Larry as long as I live I will remember you.

     

    3 Heads Digital Films

  • Mon, Dec 17 2018 11:30 PM In reply to

    • Adrian Redmond
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, May 28 2014
    • Channel 6 Television Denmark
    • Posts 180
    • Points 2,535

    Re: Cleaning up rendered/pre-computed files

    I agree one must be wary, especially when Avid treats almost everything that isn't logged-and-captured source media as rendered files. I may well continue to employ the approach I have used for years, where original files for "impiorted media" such as voiceovers, graphics, music and sound effects are stored in a logical folder structure under specific production folders, and imported to Avid from there - that way they can always be re-created. Similarly, I have also stored my titles created in Titler Pro under similar folders, from where I can retreive them.

    One of the good things about Liquid was that it kept render files to a separate folder - or drive, and had separate folders per project for "imported media" and "timewarp files" - so it was easy to weed out the chaff and keep that which could be useful in the future or timeconsuming to re-create.

    It would be good if it were possible in Avid to direct render files to a specific folder, and not just a specific drive.

    But then it would also be good if Avid stored master clips in "per-project" folders too :)

    Avid Media Composer v. 8.5.3. with Symphony Option on HP Z820 Dual Intel E5-2640 6-core HT 2.5GHz CPU 32GB RAM NVidia Quadro K4000 Graphics on Win7x64... [view my complete system specs]

    Adrian Redmond
    Owner / Producer / Editor
    Channel 6 Television Denmark

  • Tue, Dec 18 2018 5:49 PM In reply to

    Re: Cleaning up rendered/pre-computed files

    Ahhh Liquid...

     

    Desktop PC

     

    Corsair RM750X|Asus P8Z68 Deluxe(Gen3)|i7 2600K@4.4|Corsair 32G DDR3|PNY Quadro P2000(442.92)|Samsung 850 Pro SSD(OS) 256 GB|2x1TB Crucial MX500@RAID 0|2x500GB Mushkin SSD@RAID 0|LG BH16NS40|W10 Pro 64bit|Media Composer Software 2020.6 with Symphony Option on Dongle|2xHP 22'' Monitors|M-Audio AV30 Speakers.

     

    Larry as long as I live I will remember you.

     

    3 Heads Digital Films

  • Thu, Dec 20 2018 11:26 PM In reply to

    • Adrian Redmond
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, May 28 2014
    • Channel 6 Television Denmark
    • Posts 180
    • Points 2,535

    Re: Cleaning up rendered/pre-computed files

    George Angeludis wrote... Ahhh Liquid...

    Yes George - were you another editor who cut his digital teeth on Liquid? I ran Liquid Silver v.2.55 XL from 2000 uuntil 2014, and though I had Chrome HD in it's Avid livery to prepare for HD (which I never really achieved as it couldn't work on anything later than XP x86) I stayed with 2.55 until SD was no longer a viable format.

    If Liquid 2.55 - without all the bells and whistles of later NL's could have handled Win 7 x64 and HD 1080 i50, I guess I'd still be running on it.

    Liquid was very powerful, but had an amazing simplicity, and was far more intuitive than any other ediing app that I have seen. And whilst Media Composer can do lots of things that Liquid couldn't, Liquid could also do many things that Avid still cannot/does not -

    Handle unlimited audio and video tacks without having to define stereo and mono, or video and/or audio separately.

    Scroll left and right in the timeline very quickly with far greater ease - also using a wheel mouse.

    Audio scrub in all modes, for all viewers, with both mouse, keyboard or jog-shuttle panel

    Jog-shuttle panel able to control VTR for cature and logging with no extra mouse clicks

    User defineable auto incremental clip naming

    A less powerful but much more intuitive effects editor with editable keypoints

    A far less complicated and more transparent storage of user, site and project files

    Easier management of rendered files and imported files

    Timecode displays that read and show frames all the time in all modes

    Easier to patch audio/video to timeline - thus less user management of cursor modes

    Direct import of audio and graphics fiels without transcoding - ability to extend still shots for unlimited duration

    Surprisingly simple and useful "Fuse Sequence" function for saving complex files that must be reused many times (motion backgrounds, graphic animations, tuitle sequences)

    The ability to prefabricate slow-motion (and fast motion) fused sequences for later incorporation into a sequence - sometimes being able to make component clips and import them as finished is a way to achieve less rendering and a more manageable project.

    SDI outputs functional during HD logging and capture

    A timeline cursor that follows the mouse movement for easier placement of clips

    Simple extrernal midi based control of audio tracks from external hardware - no EUControl issues!

    A render viewer so that one could see what the NLE is actually rendering - rather than Avid's "windows update" approach :) Useful when rendering complex effects so that you can already at 10% see if what you will get was what you wanted :)

    Instant save - my favourite test was to make a lot of detailled changes to a sequence, and simply pull the power to the workstation - restart OSW and Liquid, and it would open at precisely the same place in the timeline and resume rendering if required - I am guessing that every input from keboard, mouse. peripherals was instantly saved prior to execution, so that in 14 years, I lost nothing!

    The ability to release a stable release version early on, thus avoiding the constant update hell which is the norm today. I ran 2.55 for 14 years and it is still running after 18 years. No new features, but no new bugs or issues either :)

    And much much more...

    Don't get me wrong - Avid is a much more capable tool for todays media environment and has many great features. But like every technical solution that can do everything and make the coffee, such gains are harvested at the price of a learning curve which for Avid is far sharper and longer than ecven the most experienced editor can achieve before handling his or her first cut.

    When Avid bought Liquid and Chrome from Pinnacle (and FAST), I hoped that our great editjng platform would continue to evolve under the Avid banner, or at least that some of the great features of Liquid Silbver would be incorporated into MC - but it would appear thta the only point of Avid buying Liquid was to be able to remove it from the market and harvest some new customers. Sad.

    I am though encouraged by the impression that the Avid community and customer support is at last beginning to resemble the level opf expertise and friendly cooperation which we had on the Liquid community many years ago.

    I haven't dismantled Liquid entirely since moving to MC - I have kept two workstations wunning Silver 2.55 and Chrome HD 7.2 so that I can still access all my old media data and master sequences, and every now and then I get the chance to get back to the basic simplicity of those bygone Liquid years.

    Thanks for the good times FAST/// :)

     

     

     

    Avid Media Composer v. 8.5.3. with Symphony Option on HP Z820 Dual Intel E5-2640 6-core HT 2.5GHz CPU 32GB RAM NVidia Quadro K4000 Graphics on Win7x64... [view my complete system specs]

    Adrian Redmond
    Owner / Producer / Editor
    Channel 6 Television Denmark

  • Thu, Dec 20 2018 11:36 PM In reply to

    Re: Cleaning up rendered/pre-computed files

    Ι was one of the best supporters of Liquid (sverkalo) and many years at forums first at Pinnacle and then here.

    Brad that was one of the creators of Liquid is now at Avid.

    I think many things has passed from Liquid to MC.

    However yes Liquid was very powerfull and especially at the final version.

    Let's not forget that Avid (and mr Avid) has started everything on NLE's.

    I am very proud to be here and love MC as well now.

    Desktop PC

     

    Corsair RM750X|Asus P8Z68 Deluxe(Gen3)|i7 2600K@4.4|Corsair 32G DDR3|PNY Quadro P2000(442.92)|Samsung 850 Pro SSD(OS) 256 GB|2x1TB Crucial MX500@RAID 0|2x500GB Mushkin SSD@RAID 0|LG BH16NS40|W10 Pro 64bit|Media Composer Software 2020.6 with Symphony Option on Dongle|2xHP 22'' Monitors|M-Audio AV30 Speakers.

     

    Larry as long as I live I will remember you.

     

    3 Heads Digital Films

  • Thu, Dec 20 2018 11:36 PM In reply to

    Re: Cleaning up rendered/pre-computed files

    Ι was one of the best supporters of Liquid (sverkalo) and many years at forums first at Pinnacle and then here.

    Brad that was one of the creators of Liquid is now at Avid.

    I think many things have passed from Liquid to MC.

    However yes Liquid was very powerfull and especially at the final version 7.2.

    Let's not forget that Avid (and mr Avid) has started everything on NLE's.

    I am very proud to be here and love MC as well now.

    Desktop PC

     

    Corsair RM750X|Asus P8Z68 Deluxe(Gen3)|i7 2600K@4.4|Corsair 32G DDR3|PNY Quadro P2000(442.92)|Samsung 850 Pro SSD(OS) 256 GB|2x1TB Crucial MX500@RAID 0|2x500GB Mushkin SSD@RAID 0|LG BH16NS40|W10 Pro 64bit|Media Composer Software 2020.6 with Symphony Option on Dongle|2xHP 22'' Monitors|M-Audio AV30 Speakers.

     

    Larry as long as I live I will remember you.

     

    3 Heads Digital Films

  • Thu, Dec 20 2018 11:51 PM In reply to

    • Adrian Redmond
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, May 28 2014
    • Channel 6 Television Denmark
    • Posts 180
    • Points 2,535

    Re: Cleaning up rendered/pre-computed files

    So Brad Swenson ended up at Avid? I thought he had started his own production company in Alaska, where I have also worked for many years on and off. He was a great resoruce back in the Liquid days.

    At the end of the day, which shareholders or capital investment fund owns which NLE manufacturers is of little importance / the real test is how the manufacturer creates and supports a community / because it is through the community that we, as individual editors, get the feeling that we are not alone. I guess that Avid has been faced with the challenges of it\s own success, having corneres a big share of the movie and broadcast market it has opened its doors to the massive world of new producers and editors, whose background and expectations are probably more mouse-driven and have not the background in classis linear editing on which to base their expectations.

    After all, if you have never used a classic sony VTR or edit controller with a real jog/shuttle wheel, why would you think that controlling a VTR with a silly mouse slider and a timecode display that doesn\t read frames during play is a problem?

    I learnet to edit film with scissors, a razor blade and a splicer, moved on to videotape back in the day when frame accurate editing was all but impossible, even using iron filings to show the scan lines on 2" tape - so timecode editing on Sony and Amepx VTR's and edit controllers was something tactile I could relate to, and I was lucky that the first NLE's I worked with were founded on the same ideas. (Hence my dismay with Avid Artist transport) :)

    But Avid seems to have built a greta community here - the climate and expertise of the membership has much improved in the past 4-5 years, and I'm happy with that!

     

     

    Avid Media Composer v. 8.5.3. with Symphony Option on HP Z820 Dual Intel E5-2640 6-core HT 2.5GHz CPU 32GB RAM NVidia Quadro K4000 Graphics on Win7x64... [view my complete system specs]

    Adrian Redmond
    Owner / Producer / Editor
    Channel 6 Television Denmark

  • Fri, Dec 21 2018 12:03 AM In reply to

    Re: Cleaning up rendered/pre-computed files

    He is a great person as everyone around here (well not me some times Big Smile).

    Great also to have you in our company Adrian.

     

    Desktop PC

     

    Corsair RM750X|Asus P8Z68 Deluxe(Gen3)|i7 2600K@4.4|Corsair 32G DDR3|PNY Quadro P2000(442.92)|Samsung 850 Pro SSD(OS) 256 GB|2x1TB Crucial MX500@RAID 0|2x500GB Mushkin SSD@RAID 0|LG BH16NS40|W10 Pro 64bit|Media Composer Software 2020.6 with Symphony Option on Dongle|2xHP 22'' Monitors|M-Audio AV30 Speakers.

     

    Larry as long as I live I will remember you.

     

    3 Heads Digital Films

Page 1 of 1 (14 items)

© Copyright 2011 Avid Technology, Inc.  Terms of Use |  Privacy Policy |  Site Map |  Find a Reseller