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  • Fri, Dec 14 2018 9:34 PM

    • jef
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    Insert Edit Export - Real world reviews?

    I have been experimenting with this tool for multiple versions.  I really want it to work. But I have yet been able to get a solid, repeatable success.  Just started experimenting with 2018.11 and it was a total bust.

    I have worked with Support off and on trying to get to the bottom of my issues with it.  There are just a host of issues which keep changing.

    What about others?  Is any one using this successfully in the real world?

    Please chime in.

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.12.9|OS 10.14.x - iMac Pro 2019 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Tue, Jan 1 2019 3:48 AM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: Insert Edit Export - Real world reviews?

    Bump?

    This is interesting.  Is NO ONE using the file based Insert Edit Export?

    If so - why?  Do people just not understand the concept?

    I am truly confused here.

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.12.9|OS 10.14.x - iMac Pro 2019 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Tue, Jan 1 2019 1:13 PM In reply to

    Re: Insert Edit Export - Real world reviews?

    Most Post Hpuses and Broadcasters in the UK have gone the Cinextools route for doing file inserts into AS-11 files and ProRes exports. Its a subscription paid service but it works well. Avid doesn't offer that with AS-11 exports so the current MC implementation sees little use in the UK (and therfore little testing or feedback)

    Now if Avid stepped it up to AS-11 exports it would be a show stopper...

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hostred Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

  • Tue, Jan 1 2019 5:09 PM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: Insert Edit Export - Real world reviews?

    Pat Horridge:

    Most Post Hpuses and Broadcasters in the UK have gone the Cinextools route for doing file inserts into AS-11 files and ProRes exports. Its a subscription paid service but it works well. Avid doesn't offer that with AS-11 exports so the current MC implementation sees little use in the UK (and therfore little testing or feedback)

    Now if Avid stepped it up to AS-11 exports it would be a show stopper...

    That is interesting.  My test of Cinextools was interesting, but not convincing.  But as they were the first on the market it makes sense.

    And given the real handcuffs ProRes presents to any tool such as this, I can see why people are not all over this kind of tool.

    But the AS-11 comment is interesting.  The US does not seem to be embracing that yet (at least from my view of the world).  It does feel as if Avid is taking a slow approach to getting to that point.  And I can totally understand that.

    I would just like to see folks kicking the tires of Avid's tools to that development continues and it improves.

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.12.9|OS 10.14.x - iMac Pro 2019 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Tue, Jan 1 2019 5:36 PM In reply to

    Re: Insert Edit Export - Real world reviews?

    To insert (using Cinextools) to ProRes you have to add an addon that forces MC to create constant datarate ProRes exports, You can't insert into a variable datatrate file. 

    Cinextools had some issues early on but I know of a number of operations who now use it as a key part of their delivery.

    AS-ii is really big in the UK and its a starting to creep into Europe.

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hostred Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

  • Wed, Feb 27 2019 11:13 PM In reply to

    • TrevorA
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    Re: Insert Edit Export - Real world reviews?

    I've had a little look at insert edit export on 2018.12.1 - it now supports more frame rates & codec flavours I think.

    First off I tried a short export (using marks in a longer sequence) to give a test file to then 'insert' an even shorter section into. It didn't like that as the file was shorter than the sequence. Makes sense I guess. 

    Then I exported a whole sequence as AVCI-100 (with an AVCI100 video mixdown as top layer). Insert edit worked into this, seemed to be OK but not exhaustive. Couple of caveats:

    Insert edit export assumes you are going to export all tracks - you can modify in options to 'selected tracks' but beware:

    a. clicking OK in this option menu goes straight to exporting

    b. the 'selected' video tracks are exported as-is (i.e. select one video track and that is effectively soloed, tracks below are not output)

    I can see this being useful going forward though. As Pat says AS11 is the holy grail. Also I often export using 'multiple mixes' to get full mix & stems - not sure how that will hold up, I expect I'd have to have an intermediary master sequence that then gets exported direct out.

    iMac 5K on High Sierra MC 2020.5, HP z420 MC 2020.4 [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Mar 1 2019 8:47 AM In reply to

    • TrevorA
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    Re: Insert Edit Export - Real world reviews?

    Not directly related to insert edit, but I was trying to create a 'blacked' (actually had some audio tones & short vid clip at start and end) ready for 'inserting' too like the old days....

     

    On 2018.12.0 on OSX 10.12.6 I just got this error when exporting an AVCI-100 MXF OP1a via Avid Media Processor as Direct Out from a 4 x stereo pair sequence:

     

    Exception: std::exception, what:ACF call failed: mSampleConsumer->ConsumeSample (mQueueMap [trackIndex].first->front()), error code 0x80000008, file /Snapshots/relengmini4_1545861879/coresw/ame/src/msm/AMAWriter/AMAExportSynchronizer.cpp line 382

     

    Tried splitting to mono, changing export codec to DNX120, mixing down video, changing output to stereo (not direct), chanigng audio bits from 24 to 16 - same result.

     

     

    iMac 5K on High Sierra MC 2020.5, HP z420 MC 2020.4 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Apr 2 2020 5:22 PM In reply to

    Re: Insert Edit Export - Real world reviews?

    No success here on v2018.12.10. "selected File is not Supported" 

    Did anyone actually get this new 2018.12.10 feature working? what's the recipe?

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Squeeze v11 EOL-Pro Sony BM2100 Telecine with variable speed controller Casio VL-Tone, CZ-101, LCD watch AJA i/o Express with Express Card Slot Ignite... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Apr 2 2020 6:36 PM In reply to

    • TrevorA
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    Re: Insert Edit Export - Real world reviews?

    I've used it on a bunch of different 2018 & 2019 versions. Usable but has some ideosyncracies. Files it'll insert to are limited. I've done it to DNx & AVCI MXF OP1a for sure. More details below:

    iMac 5K on High Sierra MC 2020.5, HP z420 MC 2020.4 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Apr 2 2020 6:44 PM In reply to

    • TrevorA
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    Re: Insert Edit Export - Real world reviews?

    Performing an Insert Edit to an Exported Sequence

    You can perform a file-based insert edit to an already exported sequence. This is helpful if you only want to replace a portion of a sequence without having to rerender the entire sequence. You can only perform the insert edit on a sequence that has been exported as an OP1a MXF using the MXF OP1a Plug-in.

    Insert Edit for Exported Sequences is supported for the following:

    • DNxHR - (all supported projects)

    • DNxHD - (all supported projects)

    • AVC Intra 100

    - 720 (23.98p, 25p, 29.97p, 50p, 59.94p)

    - 1080 (23.98p, 25p, 29.97p, 50i, 59.94i)

    464

    Performing an Insert Edit to an Exported Sequence

     

    • XAVC Intra 100

    - 1080 (23.98p, 25p, 29.97p, 50i, 59.94i)

    • XAVC 4K Intra CBG Class 300 and XAVC 4K Intra CBG Class 480

    - UHD 3840x2160 (23.98p, 25p, 29.97p, 50p, 59.94p)

    - 4K 4096x2160 (23.98p, 24p, 25p, 29.97p, 50p, 59.94p)

    To perform an insert edit to an exported sequence:

    1. Select your sequence and export it using the MXF OP1a plug-in. (The sequence is exported as an .mxf file.)

    2. Click OK.

    3. Load the sequence in the Timeline.

    4. Make your changes.

    5. Place a mark In/Out and/or spanned markers around the sections to be replaced.

    6. Select File > Output > Insert Edit Export.

    You are prompted to locate the .mxf file.

    If it can be found, the default file name will be the file most recently exported of the sequence.

    7. Select the MXF file.

    8. Click the Options button to reveal the file's details. You can also choose from the following track options:

    t Use Selected Tracks - to export the tracks that are enabled in the Timeline

    t Include Inactive Audio Tracks - to export inactive audio tracks

    9. Click Export.

    10. If prompted, select In and Out marks, or spanned markers.

    11. If prompted, select between direct out audio and mixed audio.

    n Media Composer will attempt to determine if the original export was done in direct out or by an audio mix, by comparing the tracks layout in the sequence to those in the existing file. In some case, it is unable to tell the difference. For example, if there are six mono tracks in the sequence, and six channels in the MXF file, Media Composer won't know if the original mix was done in 5.1 surround or as six channel direct out, an in this case you will have to choose a selection when prompted.

    The requested portion of the sequence will be replaced.

    iMac 5K on High Sierra MC 2020.5, HP z420 MC 2020.4 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Apr 2 2020 7:22 PM In reply to

    Re: Insert Edit Export - Real world reviews?

    Since last year when this topic started I've seen a massive take up in CineXtools usage.
    Sadly Avid never extended this functionality to DPP AS-11 file exports and for UK Post houses that's most of their exports.

    CineXtools is robust and reliable and just does the job. I don't know anyone who has tried the avid solution at all.

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET

     

    QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more

    All bespoke and delivered onsite at yours. Or delivered via hostred Zoom session.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk | W www.vet-training.co.uk |

     

  • Thu, Apr 2 2020 9:08 PM In reply to

    Re: Insert Edit Export - Real world reviews?

    Thank you Trevor and thank you Pat. Always a pleasure. 

    That recipe is great. I am using exclusively AMA Export > Avid Media Processor>
    XDCam HDv50 Mbits. Which I believe is OP1a. My understanding of these specs is limited: 
    when you said "Plug-in" were you referring to that Sony Nablet product...which I don't avtually know why I would need in 2018.12.10. I should know, but I don't .

    Other than that, there are questions about those two "compliance" settings and generally if I need to render before asking to insert edit and whether I must use the exact originating (exported) sequence, rather than a Duplicate of the offline sequence, except for the to-be-inserted online clips within spanned markers or Marks.

    I see this feature as a potential lifesaver if there is a need for an 11th hour need for a frame accurate and, if with sound, a clean edit. That all seems like it may be too much to ask.
     
     So Pat, I will take your suggestion, if this escalates from a tech curiosity to a genuine need.

    I'll give it all another go, unless I do need  that 3td-Party plug-in. 

     

     


    Squeeze v11 EOL-Pro Sony BM2100 Telecine with variable speed controller Casio VL-Tone, CZ-101, LCD watch AJA i/o Express with Express Card Slot Ignite... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Apr 2 2020 10:02 PM In reply to

    • TrevorA
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    Re: Insert Edit Export - Real world reviews?

    I'm pretty sure XDcam isn't covered (yet).

    Yes it does work on a duplicate of your sequence (or any sequence that is the same exact duration - plus audio tracks should match).

    i think it does insert to an AS11 these days (essence only, not metadata)

    Yes you can do an invisible audio and/or video drop in.

    Main 'in anger' use I've had is on sports highlights exports that are played to air from EVS. High frame rate (59.94P) meant we couldn't use 'send to playback' and had to export OP1a to watch folders. If there were small fixes (graphics/ audio drop-ins) we would insert in seconds to the OP1a and transfer to EVS again. Saved 10-20 mins every time & meant errors were fixed that would otherwise have aired.

     

    CineXTools is a much more complete package, but an extra cost.

     

    iMac 5K on High Sierra MC 2020.5, HP z420 MC 2020.4 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Apr 2 2020 11:42 PM In reply to

    • Mercer
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    Re: Insert Edit Export - Real world reviews?

    TrevorA:

    CineXTools is a much more complete package, but an extra cost.

    At $2695 per year, to include AS11 or $29 per hour (10 mins extra to install), I think I'd rather stick to Avid or just rexport the online

    MC with Symphony option, 2020.4, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P3200/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio Mini... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Apr 3 2020 5:25 AM In reply to

    • TrevorA
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    Re: Insert Edit Export - Real world reviews?

    Mercer:

    At $2695 per year, to include AS11 or $29 per hour (10 mins extra to install), I think I'd rather stick to Avid or just rexport the online

    And then have to QC the whole file again? Versus checking the drop-in?

    Depends how much you need it, obvs

    iMac 5K on High Sierra MC 2020.5, HP z420 MC 2020.4 [view my complete system specs]
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