Latest post Thu, Nov 28 2019 12:17 PM by TrevorA. 23 replies.
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  • Thu, Aug 16 2018 1:58 PM In reply to

    Re: i9 vs Threadripper (Intel vs AMD) plus some test results

    My experience with MC on Threadripper differs from project to project, but in general I would not recommend it. With DNxHD/HR it runs quite smooth, especially 1080p (but of course, any cheap PC will handle this). But I notice the different between "quite smooth" and "really fast" as soon as I fire up Premiere, which is a lot faster (in playback) and more responsive (the UI/timeline) than MC on Threadripper. This week I tried to edit a music video, and MC fell flat on its face when I tried to combine multiple clips of QT Animation @ 4K DCI res in one frame (cropped and scaled). It's a pretty extreme example, but when I tried the same thing in Premiere it was no problem at all.

    Sure, Threadripper is not supported by Avid, but I have a feeling that MC's playback engine is just outdated and in need of a rewrite, to work better with modern hardware. I think they're working on that (I remember reading something about it in an article about the UI-panel last April), but it might be years away, who knows.

    CPU: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X 16-core 3.4GHz GPU: GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti 11G MB: Gigabyte X399 Designare EX RAM: 64GB Kingston HyperX Predator HX430C15PB3K4... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Aug 30 2018 4:57 PM In reply to

    • fropdaddy
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    Re: i9 vs Threadripper (Intel vs AMD) plus some test results

    Walter Johan:
    This week I tried to edit a music video, and MC fell flat on its face when I tried to combine multiple clips of QT Animation @ 4K DCI res in one frame (cropped and scaled). It's a pretty extreme example, but when I tried the same thing in Premiere it was no problem at all.

    I wonder if you weren't using QT Animation if it would perform better due to the way that QT is supported (or not) on PC.

     

     

  • Fri, Nov 22 2019 7:40 AM In reply to

    • TrevorA
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    Re: i9 vs Threadripper (Intel vs AMD) plus some test results

    Walter Johan:

    My experience with MC on Threadripper differs from project to project, but in general I would not recommend it. 

    Does your advice to avoid Threadripper for AMC still hold true on 2019 versions?

  • Fri, Nov 22 2019 2:02 PM In reply to

    Re: i9 vs Threadripper (Intel vs AMD) plus some test results

    TrevorA:

    Does your advice to avoid Threadripper for AMC still hold true on 2019 versions?

    I've only tried 2019 briefly. The amount of bugs I encountered made me decide to stick to the long term maintenance versions (right now 2018.12), so I won't be switching to 2019 until later next year, when it is properly patched. I didn't notice any difference in playback performance compared to 2018, but don't count this as a proper test. Maybe other people will report differently.
     
    What I learned in the meantime (I've been editing in Premiere for about 14 years, and only recently with Media Composer on specific projects) is that Media Composer is a very sensitive (and rather picky) beast. If you do everything exactly the way MC likes it, then performance is fine. Try anything else and, eh... well. So my 4x PIP 4K DCI QuickTime Animation adventure from last year was a terrible idea to try with MC. I'm still not entirely sure to which extend performance problems are caused by a lack of compatibility with Threadripper, or just from the playback engine strongly preferring some formats over others, as I have no similarly spec'd Intel machine to run the same tests. Of course Long-GOP performance was never MC's strong point.

    But for example, right now I'm editing a documentary (1080p DNxHR LB proxies) and performance is great, unsurprisingly. What surprised me more was that playback performance was also great when trying to AMA-link and work directly from the source files, which is a mix of 4K Blackmagic RAW Q5 and 4K DNxHR HQX.
     
    I think the only thing we can conclude from all this is that you can make Media Composer run great on a Threadripper, as long as you feed it DNxHR or Blackmagic RAW and not much else (haven't tried ProRes!). However, Threadripper is still not officially supported by Avid, and Intel CPU's have (or at least: used to have) better single core performance, which seems to matter more to MC than a lot of cores with lower clock speeds. That's why, last year, I didn't recommend Threadripper.

    Maybe the third generation TR will be a better option, but again I doubt that MC really profits from those amounts of cores, and Intel is slashing their prices anyway, so it's probably better to stay as close to the Avid recommended systems as possible.

    CPU: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X 16-core 3.4GHz GPU: GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti 11G MB: Gigabyte X399 Designare EX RAM: 64GB Kingston HyperX Predator HX430C15PB3K4... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Nov 22 2019 2:31 PM In reply to

    • cls105
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    Re: i9 vs Threadripper (Intel vs AMD) plus some test results

    I'll summerize my knowledge.  Some is 2yr old experience from 1st gen ryzen and some are conclusions I've made by reading posts.

    1) AMD incredible for transcoding and exporting mxf (high core use scenarios in MC)

    2) AMD very risky for realtime playback when editing (ive had issues w/ 1st gen ryzen).

    3) I've read that MC only uses 18 cores well.  However, my guess is that you could use more if you were to do forground transcoding and background simeltaneously.  That is, if you have the storage bandwidth (source files on ssd).  Even with my 14 core 7940x, on a regular spinning drive, sometimes I wont be able to maximize cpu because the drive wont feed data fast enough to the cpu).

    4) My suggestion:  Invest in the upcoming intel x299x.

    18 core x299x cpu have dropped to $1,000 which is a great value (we can thank AMD for that).

    x299x offers 256gb ram vs 128gb ram on x299.  Might aswell buy new 32gb dimms and add as you go along.  Ram is cheap these days (compared to mac pro ecc ram).  I'm seeing 64gb ram kits 2x 32gb dimms for $300 on newegg.

    In the next month we should see all the manufactures releasing the new x299x boards, I think only gigabyte has announced theirs so far.  As long as you install a compatible version of windows 10, Media composer will work flawlessly (ive built tons).

    In conclusion.  Intel has made huge price drops with their HEDT cpu's.  It's risky to go AMD.  Threadripper 2 32 core had major windows cpu schedualer issues (it worked considerably faster in linux).  I wouldnt even consider it until people benchmark it.  I am sure Puget will text threadripper 3 vs x299x by Jan 2020, but they don't even do media composer tests.

  • Sun, Nov 24 2019 9:22 PM In reply to

    • Lukas Boeck
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    Re: i9 vs Threadripper (Intel vs AMD) plus some test results

    cls105:

    In the next month we should see all the manufactures releasing the new x299x boards, I think only gigabyte has announced theirs so far.  As long as you install a compatible version of windows 10, Media composer will work flawlessly (ive built tons).

     

    I think you sould see this Xeon board:

    Supermicro X11SPA

    Has everything. everything.

     

     

    MC 2018.12.2 Cusom bulid Supermicro X9SRL-F, 32 Gig Ram, 3ware 9750 6x6TB Seagate EC Drives, LSI 9207 + LTO-6, Mojo DX, Artist Color, Flanders CM240, GTX... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Nov 26 2019 9:09 PM In reply to

    • cls105
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    Re: i9 vs Threadripper (Intel vs AMD) plus some test results

    Lukas Boeck:

    cls105:

    In the next month we should see all the manufactures releasing the new x299x boards, I think only gigabyte has announced theirs so far.  As long as you install a compatible version of windows 10, Media composer will work flawlessly (ive built tons).

     

    I think you sould see this Xeon board:

    Supermicro X11SPA

    Has everything. everything.

     

     

    Interesting.  But what are the advantages of xeon c621 vs x299x?

    Is it ecc ram only? That can get expensive.  Xeon also won't clock as high.  It does have a lot of expansion though.

    I see the importance when it comes to servers, but an editing workstation?

    Curious to know what the advantages of going this route is.

    Thanks

     

  • Tue, Nov 26 2019 9:58 PM In reply to

    • Lukas Boeck
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    Re: i9 vs Threadripper (Intel vs AMD) plus some test results

    I don't think there's meaningful differences in the chipset.

    I always use xeons on supermicro boards for my bulids. Stability and interopearability are my concerns.

    I use hardware raid controllers and LTO tape drives a lot and that just feels more at home on a professional board, that's what those cards get tested on.

    My PC vendor switched from asus to supermico after i bought a few machines, goes through 300 boards a year now, has half as many problems as before.

    The ECC Ram is a benefit if you use large raid arrays, but is not crucial.

    I don't think ECC ram is at a price disadvantage. but you give up gamer dram timings.

    Yeah, and these new xeons have 68 pcie lanes and the board has the slots to proove it.

    My main rig has 6 pci-e cards, which is admittedly more than most people need.

    MC 2018.12.2 Cusom bulid Supermicro X9SRL-F, 32 Gig Ram, 3ware 9750 6x6TB Seagate EC Drives, LSI 9207 + LTO-6, Mojo DX, Artist Color, Flanders CM240, GTX... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Nov 28 2019 12:17 PM In reply to

    • TrevorA
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    Re: i9 vs Threadripper (Intel vs AMD) plus some test results

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg84pvPNSf0 - "A little test if AMD Ryzen 9 3900x and Radeon WX7100 will play well with Avid Media Composer"

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