Latest post Fri, Mar 6 2015 8:42 PM by jef. 7 replies.
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  • Thu, Mar 5 2015 3:09 AM

    • Birck66
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    23.976 or 30p workflow for Tv series?

    To 30p or not to 30p....

     

    Here is the issue. We like the look and feel of 23.976, but for production reasons, we need to ingest, edit and output very fast and the final codec is 59.94 MXF files in XDCAM HD with embeded closed caption.

     

    Option 1 : Shoot and edit in a 23.976 project. Export QT ref then re-import (or AMA) in a 59.94 project for delivery.

    Option 2 : Shoot in 23.976. Edit in a 30p project. Then export in 59.94 from the same project.

    Option 3 : Shoot and edit in a 30p project. Then export in 59.94 from the same project.

     

    Wich option will give a better result? And a faster one? What about AMA and upconverting the frame rate? Bad idea?

    Thanks in advance for you inputs.

    HP Z2 G4 Win10 (1809) Avid Artist | DNxIO 32gig RAM Quadro P1000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Mar 5 2015 4:01 AM In reply to

    Re: 23.976 or 30p workflow for Tv series?

    Is the export 59.94i or 59.94p?

    (SYSTEM 1) iMac Late 2012 27" (13,2), Mac OS X 10.15.5, Avid Media Composer 2020.6 w/Symphony, Intel Core i7 3.4 GHz, 32 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Mar 5 2015 4:01 AM In reply to

    • Birck66
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    Re: 23.976 or 30p workflow for Tv series?

    59.94i. For US networks.

    HP Z2 G4 Win10 (1809) Avid Artist | DNxIO 32gig RAM Quadro P1000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Mar 5 2015 2:31 PM In reply to

    • bonang
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    Re: 23.976 or 30p workflow for Tv series?

    Option 3 (as long as you mean 29.97p when you write 30p) will always give the best results as it obviates any pulldown artifacts converting 23.976> 29.97p/59.94i. 

    Avid MC 2020.6 with Symphony option | HP zbook 17" G3 / i7 6820HQ / 32GB RAM / 512GB SSD / WIN 10 PRO 64 / nVidia m3000m / BMD UltraStudio 4K [view my complete system specs]

    Keith

  • Thu, Mar 5 2015 3:11 PM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: 23.976 or 30p workflow for Tv series?

    bonang:

    Option 3 (as long as you mean 29.97p when you write 30p) will always give the best results as it obviates any pulldown artifacts converting 23.976> 29.97p/59.94i. 

    I would suggest that the OP check that with the network.  Some networks do not consider 2:3 pulldown an artifact and in fact consider the repeated frame stutter of your option to be a QC failure.

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.12.9|OS 10.14.x - iMac Pro 2019 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Thu, Mar 5 2015 3:19 PM In reply to

    Re: 23.976 or 30p workflow for Tv series?

    What Jef says, and it also may be easier to derive masters for any international distribution in 50Hz-based countries.

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Mar 5 2015 4:13 PM In reply to

    • bonang
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    Re: 23.976 or 30p workflow for Tv series?

    jef:

    bonang:

    Option 3 (as long as you mean 29.97p when you write 30p) will always give the best results as it obviates any pulldown artifacts converting 23.976> 29.97p/59.94i. 

    I would suggest that the OP check that with the network.  Some networks do not consider 2:3 pulldown an artifact and in fact consider the repeated frame stutter of your option to be a QC failure.

    Jef

    Can you explain what "repeated frame stutter" is? I'm not understanding how frames are repeated in going from 29.97 to 59.94i - they're the same amount of frames, just no field interpolation in "p". Or I'm not understanding something - thanks.

    Avid MC 2020.6 with Symphony option | HP zbook 17" G3 / i7 6820HQ / 32GB RAM / 512GB SSD / WIN 10 PRO 64 / nVidia m3000m / BMD UltraStudio 4K [view my complete system specs]

    Keith

  • Fri, Mar 6 2015 8:42 PM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: 23.976 or 30p workflow for Tv series?

    bonang:

    jef:

    bonang:

    Option 3 (as long as you mean 29.97p when you write 30p) will always give the best results as it obviates any pulldown artifacts converting 23.976> 29.97p/59.94i. 

    I would suggest that the OP check that with the network.  Some networks do not consider 2:3 pulldown an artifact and in fact consider the repeated frame stutter of your option to be a QC failure.

    Jef

    Can you explain what "repeated frame stutter" is? I'm not understanding how frames are repeated in going from 29.97 to 59.94i - they're the same amount of frames, just no field interpolation in "p". Or I'm not understanding something - thanks.

    There is no frame repeating when going from 29.97 to 59.94i.  But you wrote "Option 3 (as long as you mean 29.97p when you write 30p) will always give the best results as it obviates any pulldown artifacts converting 23.976> 29.97p/59.94i."

    When going from 23.976 to 59.94i you must do some type of image repeating.  For a discussion of how this is handled in an interlace sequence (59.94i) I suggest reading:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine#2:3_pulldown

    This has been the industry standard method of converting 23.976p to 59.94i since the advent of modern telecine transfer technology.  Things got messy when FCP 7 allowed mixing frame rates in a sequence.  It did not follow this standard, but instead used a 1,2,3,4,4 sequence to make the conversion from 23.976p to 59.94i.  This was done since it was an easier, less process intensive method.  This method creates what some call the "repeated frame stutter" as every 5th frame is a repeat of frame 4.  Some people have gotten used to this and find it acceptable.  Others have not. 

    The interlace method of 2:3 pulldown, while not perfect, is spreading this necessary repeat of information over a longer period of time, using interlace's higher temporal sampling to try and smooth things out.

    Avid will use the 2:3 pulldown method assuming you have your sequence set properly and the source footage is identified correctly.  You can force Avid to work in the FCP manner if you wish. 

    Jef

     

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.12.9|OS 10.14.x - iMac Pro 2019 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

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