Latest post Sun, Aug 11 2013 2:20 PM by jef. 11 replies.
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  • Fri, Aug 9 2013 7:52 PM

    • jdrouette
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    Performance expectations with AMA and DNxHD 145

    Our broadcast facility has three MC 7.0 seats working with DNxHD 145 media on a Facilis shared storage RAID. The drives usually get 300 MB/s or faster read/write speeds, and yet Avid is very sluggish playing back and editing through AMA. Avid freezes for 10-20 seconds after almost every edit, and pressing play is a waiting game. Even opening/closing bins feels slow.

    Once the footage is imported or consolidated, the system speeds feel normal again.

    Considering the amount of footage we're ingesting daily, we'd prefer a workflow in which we didn't need to transcode until after at least rough cut stage. Are we wrong to expect faster performance, especially considering we're working almost exclusively with DNxHD footage? If not, what else might be hindering our systems?

    These are the specs:

    HP Z800 (Xeon x5650 @ 2.67Ghz), 24 GB RAM, Quadro 4000.

    Windows 7 Pro.

    Avid Media Composer 2021.2 Symphony option, Blackmagic Design UltraStudio 4K Mini (Desktop Video Application v12.0), macOS 11.2.2, iMac Pro (2017) 10-Core... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Aug 10 2013 4:21 AM In reply to

    • Wm.Busby
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    Re: Performance expectations with AMA and DNxHD 145

    Why not just import instead of AMA? Since it's dnxhd it'll fast import

    HP Z400 (W3520) 2.67 ghz quad core, 12GB ram, Quadro K2000 (Nvidia driver 310.90), Win 7 Pro 64, MC 5.5.3, Quicktime version 7.6.9, KVM switch, dual 20"... [view my complete system specs]

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  • Sat, Aug 10 2013 1:18 PM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
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    Re: Performance expectations with AMA and DNxHD 145

    jdrouette:

    Our broadcast facility has three MC 7.0 seats working with DNxHD 145 media on a Facilis shared storage RAID. The drives usually get 300 GB/s or faster read/write speeds, and yet Avid is very sluggish playing back and editing through AMA. Avid freezes for 10-20 seconds after almost every edit...

    How are your workstations connected to your Facillis storage? That's probably the weak link. 

    MC 2020.12 | QT 7.7.9 | Continuum 2021 | Sapphire 2021 | Mocha Pro 2021 | Titler Pro 7.3 | Windows 10 Pro x64 (20H2) | System: Asus x299, i9-7940X (4.1GHz... [view my complete system specs]

    Steve

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  • Sat, Aug 10 2013 2:07 PM In reply to

    Re: Performance expectations with AMA and DNxHD 145

    jdrouette:
    The drives usually get 300 GB/s or faster read/write speeds

    300GB is quite high, even for a wall of enterprise level solution. You probably meant 300 MB/s, which is typical real-world speed for a single 4Gb conenction system. A Facilis TB has anywhere from 350 MB/s - 750 MB/s total bandwidth per chassis.

     

    On topic, while AMA is quick and convenient (for the most part) it can sacrifice a lot in the performance side. I would just consolidate immediately you AMA linked the DNX files.

    AMA performance is more dependent on CPU processing. There are a lot of layers in the process and many of these processes are dependent on external applications like QuickTime. You will not get the same performance as media files in the native Avid MXF structure.

     

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  • Sat, Aug 10 2013 2:11 PM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: Performance expectations with AMA and DNxHD 145

    Wm.Busby:

    Why not just import instead of AMA? Since it's dnxhd it'll fast import

    I agree with Wm.  At least I wonder about what you are actually doing.  Where is the dnx hd 145 media coming from and why are you AMAing to it?

    Or are you actually AMAing to a different format and ultimately transcoding to AMA.  I guess I am saying you question and workflow is not clear to me.

    Cheers,

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.12.9|OS 10.14.x - iMac Pro 2019 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

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    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Sat, Aug 10 2013 2:40 PM In reply to

    Re: Performance expectations with AMA and DNxHD 145

    Just guessing, but I believe the OP is working in DNxHD 145, but wants to avoid wasting drive space, so wants to work AMA with media from the various cameras to get a rough cut and then transcode just the footage actually used, not everything. ( I notice he said import or consolidated, but I think he means transcode because just consolidating the camera footage won't change it to DNxHD 145, will it?)

    I think what he is trying to say is that performance is MUCH more sluggish with AMA material than he expected and wants to know if this is normal with the system specs.

    MC 6.0.4,Gateway FX6800, i7 920 Processor, Windows 10 Pro (upgraded from Win 7 Pro 64 SP1), 6gb Ram, GeForce GT 710 (2gb), 2 JVC HM170U Camcorders, 1 Canon... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Aug 10 2013 4:43 PM In reply to

    • jdrouette
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    Re: Performance expectations with AMA and DNxHD 145

    Dom - Yes, I meant to type 300 MB/s. Corrected.

    BarkinMadd - The Facilis is connected via Fiber Optic. I've suspected it may be responsible for some of the performance problem, and an update has been promised by next week to resolve some issues.

    Roger - Indeed, the idea is to save drive space as much as possbile. Complete shows, ranging from 30 minutes to 90 minutes, are ingested by master control at DNxHD 145 onto a dedicated partition. We have anothr partition reserved for our imported/consolidated media. Both get filled up rather quickly given the high turnaround of material, which we often need to keep online for up to a month or two until our promos for the shows are completed. 

    I expected a little hit in performance because of AMA, but I thought that since the media was already DNxHD 145, the hit would be minimal and managable. What I experienced this week was simply not workable, even with short 40-second sequences (with very few VFX) and a maximum of 5 hours of media per project. 

     

    Avid Media Composer 2021.2 Symphony option, Blackmagic Design UltraStudio 4K Mini (Desktop Video Application v12.0), macOS 11.2.2, iMac Pro (2017) 10-Core... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Aug 10 2013 5:48 PM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: Performance expectations with AMA and DNxHD 145

    jdrouette:

    Complete shows, ranging from 30 minutes to 90 minutes, are ingested by master control at DNxHD 145 onto a dedicated partition. We have anothr partition reserved for our imported/consolidated media. Both get filled up rather quickly given the high turnaround of material, which we often need to keep online for up to a month or two until our promos for the shows are completed. 

    You say  ingested as dnxhd 145.  .mxf or .mov?  What hardware is doing the ingest?

    If .mxf you should be able to access it directly (one small exception).  If .mov, you should be able to consoidate as a fast import and then delete the .mov.  This will give you the same space usage as AMAing to the clip.

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.12.9|OS 10.14.x - iMac Pro 2019 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Sat, Aug 10 2013 5:59 PM In reply to

    • jdrouette
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    Re: Performance expectations with AMA and DNxHD 145

    Jef,

    The shows are ingested as .mov by Pipeline, although I'm not well-versed in that side of the workflow.

    Consolidating then deleting the original .mov makes sense, of course. Before adding that extra step to the workflow, I wanted to get an idea if the direct AMA workflow could also work. I'm getting the impression from most of the responses that it may not.

    Unfortunately, after a few weeks of testing, background transcoding fails on our systems 2 times out of 3. Still haven't figured out why.

    Avid Media Composer 2021.2 Symphony option, Blackmagic Design UltraStudio 4K Mini (Desktop Video Application v12.0), macOS 11.2.2, iMac Pro (2017) 10-Core... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Aug 10 2013 7:38 PM In reply to

    • Wm.Busby
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    Re: Performance expectations with AMA and DNxHD 145

    jdrouette:
    Unfortunately, after a few weeks of testing, background transcoding fails on our systems 2 times out of 3. Still haven't figured out why.

    There's no point in transcoding dnxhd145 to dnxhd145. That's just another compression hit. Consolidate will basically just rewrap to Avid mxf files and doesn't add compression and is much faster anyway.

    HP Z400 (W3520) 2.67 ghz quad core, 12GB ram, Quadro K2000 (Nvidia driver 310.90), Win 7 Pro 64, MC 5.5.3, Quicktime version 7.6.9, KVM switch, dual 20"... [view my complete system specs]

    Forum etiquette rule #1: FILL OUT SYSTEM SPECS IN PROFILE! :)

  • Sat, Aug 10 2013 9:30 PM In reply to

    • jdrouette
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    Re: Performance expectations with AMA and DNxHD 145

    Good to know. I assumed that when transcoding from and to the same codec the media was simply duplicated. I will definitely consolidate.

    Avid Media Composer 2021.2 Symphony option, Blackmagic Design UltraStudio 4K Mini (Desktop Video Application v12.0), macOS 11.2.2, iMac Pro (2017) 10-Core... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Aug 11 2013 2:20 PM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: Performance expectations with AMA and DNxHD 145

    jdrouette:

    Good to know. I assumed that when transcoding from and to the same codec the media was simply duplicated. I will definitely consolidate.

    A consolidate of a DNX.mov, when everything is set correctly, is just a bit slower than a straight disk copy.  So if your workflow was to copy off of the ingrest drive to your partitions, then this will be only slightly more time consuming than the normal copy / AMA and will get you to a solid playback.

    It would be interesting (and worthwhile) to test which is faster: Consolidtate or Import.  I say that becuase if levels and and such are set correctly, these .mov files should do a fast import.  And that is supposed to be the same as a consolidate.  Wonder if either is faster?

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.12.9|OS 10.14.x - iMac Pro 2019 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown"... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

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