Latest post Sun, Aug 1 2010 10:06 AM by editmk. 14 replies.
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  • Fri, Jul 30 2010 11:07 PM

    • editmk
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    Why HP should be upset with Avid!

    I work from home on a mix of broadcast programmes. Prime time BBC and Channel 4 programmes. I have a HP XW8600 with dual 3Ghz quad core xeons, 16GB of ram, Nvidia Quadro FX 3700 and 3 banks of 8 x 1.5tb drives stripped and mirrored in raid 10. That ends up with 3 x 6TB arrays which are super fast. By most standards my suite is fast. In fact I have worked in 'Award Winning' facilities with far less spec'd equipment. Far less.

    However according to Media Composer Version 5 release notes my XW8600 is not qualified. It is less than two years old!

    Now I don't want to buy a Nitris because it is expensive especially when compared to the Matrox MX02 Rack. But the MX02 rack is not supported. I can however use Apple Quicktime Pro Res now in version 5. So if I buy a new Power Mac, a Matrox MX02 rack and FCP then I can digitize in FCP Quicktime Pro Res and I can still use the media in Avid.

    New Mac £4000 Maxtrox MX02 Rack £2000 FCP £600

    Total £6600

    Advantages

    1. FCP and Avid

    2. HD SDI in and out

    3. Smoke compatible (its a bonus rather than an advantage)

    Now to get HD SDI in and out on a HP workstation inside Avid I need to spend

    HP Z800 £4000 and Nitris £10000

    Total £12000

    or

    HP Z800 £4000 and Mojo DX £8000

    Total £14000

    To sum up if I buy a HP workstation Avid won't qualify their software to run on it in 2 years. And if I want to get HD SDI in and out I need to spend £12000 to £14000 rather than £6600.

    Hmmm.

    Avid you need to stop trying to force people to use your over priced hardware. You need to qualify HP workstations that are older than two years.

    Or

    I am going to have to buy a Mac. And once I have a Mac, I will buy FCP. What if I like it more? Then you have lost me and HP has lost me.

    I would be very annoyed if I was HP.

    HP XW8600 Dual Quad Core 3 Ghz Windows 8 16 Gigs of Ram 24TB of Raid 10 sata storage Media Composer 7 Matrox MX02 Mini [view my complete system specs]

    www.mikegreen.tv

  • Fri, Jul 30 2010 11:14 PM In reply to

    Re: Why HP should be upset with Avid!

    editmk:
    However according to Media Composer Version 5 release notes my XW8600 is not qualified.

    I believe you are qualified. See page two of this.

     

    Newscutter Nitris DX 9.5.3.5 * Media Composer 5.5.3.6 (At Home on PC running XP Pro) * Symphony 6.5.2.1 (At home on MacBook Pro3,1 running 10.7.2) * Interplay... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

    Senior Editor

    The Pentagon Channel

    www.pentagonchannel.mil

  • Fri, Jul 30 2010 11:23 PM In reply to

    Re: Why HP should be upset with Avid!

    From the MC 5 readme Supported PC Hardware

    ">HP xw8600, NVIDIA Quadro  3700,Windows XP 32.Windows Vista 64, Software Only

    Nitris DX, Mojo DX, Adrenaline, Mojo SDI, Mojo,Matrox MX02 Mini

     

    The 8400 is similarly supported

     

  • Sat, Jul 31 2010 12:33 AM In reply to

    Re: Why HP should be upset with Avid!

    editmk:
    according to Media Composer Version 5 release notes my XW8600 is not qualified

    The ReadMe for 5.0.2 (middle of p.13) and the ReadMe for 5.0.1 (middle of p.12) do list the XW8600 as supported, also with Win7, so you have somehow been misinformed. Which document led you to believe that this configuration was no longer qualified?

    Also, it is generally best to check the most recent supported config list, which is here, and that also fully supports the XW8600, even under Win7. See the extensive XW8600 support document.

    So you're on a perfectly suited system, that is also supported by Avid.

    editmk:
    To sum up if I buy a HP workstation Avid won't qualify their software to run on it in 2 years.

    That is incorrect. The (older) XW8400 is also supported, as is the 4600. On the 8400, there's no support for Win7, as HP do not support Win7 on the XW8400. Even though it works, they just won't support it and therefore Avid won't either.

    I am going to have to buy a Mac.
    Fine if you want to buy a Mac. For a more complete comparison, on an HP system you could capture with Premiere, then edit in MC.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jul 31 2010 7:04 AM In reply to

    • editmk
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    Re: Why HP should be upset with Avid!

    I stand corrected.

    When you make a mistake, own up and apoligise I say, so Avid I am sorry for saying you do not qualify edit suites older than two years. This is simply not true.

    And I wasn't aware that I could use the MX02 Rack in Premier which I own as part of Adobe Production Premium.

    But the comparison still stands.

    HD SDI in and out is MUCH cheaper on FCP and now Adobe Premiere. Thats 2 of the 3 top video editing platforms. In this market where Editors are migrating to FCP and Premiere, Avids policy which gives people editing on Avid only 1 choice, which is to pay 4 times as much for HD SDI in and out, is going to drive people away.

    And it will change my decision of HP or Mac next time round. And HP will lose me.

    I don't want to buy a Mac. I don't want to migrate to FCP. I don't want to buy an iphone.

    Avids policy is making these look likely (apart from the iphone, that was a bad attempt at a joke) and HP should be annoyed.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    HP XW8600 Dual Quad Core 3 Ghz Windows 8 16 Gigs of Ram 24TB of Raid 10 sata storage Media Composer 7 Matrox MX02 Mini [view my complete system specs]

    www.mikegreen.tv

  • Sat, Jul 31 2010 10:21 AM In reply to

    Re: Why HP should be upset with Avid!

    I think it would be wise if Avid open up to third party hardware, as long as they are very strict about it. For example, the fact that the MXO2 does not support all project formats that MC does, makes it a cheap, but crippled solution, and I don't like that.

    Personally, I'm voting for the Motu HDX, but that would seriously kill off Nitris DX, I guess.

    But there's another thing that I don't really get. HD-SDI I/O is nice to have, but in order to use it, you will need decks and monitors that do HD-SDI. These all cost a whole lot more, I'd think. How important is HD-SDI in this day and age? Aren't decks and such a dying breed in an increasingly file-based industry?

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jul 31 2010 1:07 PM In reply to

    • Tom Pearson
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    Re: Why HP should be upset with Avid!

    I dont even have a deck pluged in anymore. I just pull one out of storage when if I need one  

    Mac Pro 3.5 gig 6 core 64 gig ram D700 radons with ssd os drive with a 20 tb raid, Artist Mix and Artist color Artist control [view my complete system specs]

    Tom Pearson

    Director/Writer Big Picture Films

    Sound Designer/Sound Editor Hollywood Sounds

    WWLD

  • Sat, Jul 31 2010 2:36 PM In reply to

    • editmk
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    • Joined on Mon, Sep 10 2007
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    Re: Why HP should be upset with Avid!

    I agree. Most of my footage is from Red or XD Cam now anyway.

    But I do still need to lay off to tape for deliverables.

    HP XW8600 Dual Quad Core 3 Ghz Windows 8 16 Gigs of Ram 24TB of Raid 10 sata storage Media Composer 7 Matrox MX02 Mini [view my complete system specs]

    www.mikegreen.tv

  • Sat, Jul 31 2010 2:55 PM In reply to

    Re: Why HP should be upset with Avid!

    editmk:
    But I do still need to lay off to tape for deliverables.

    Do you own an HD deck or do you rent them?

     

    Just saying, after my Meridien was traded in to a classic Nitris, then a Nitris DX, I've only used its HD-SDI output for monitoring, and one or two layoffs to a rented deck. Not sure I ever even used its input. I've extensively used all its digital audio I/O's though, as well as timecode I/O.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jul 31 2010 7:33 PM In reply to

    • editmk
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    Re: Why HP should be upset with Avid!

    Job ter Burg:
    Do you own an HD deck or do you rent them?

    I rent in HD decks to do my layoffs

    Job ter Burg:
    Just saying, after my Meridien was traded in to a classic Nitris, then a Nitris DX, I've only used its HD-SDI output for monitoring, and one or two layoffs to a rented deck. Not sure I ever even used its input. I've extensively used all its digital audio I/O's though, as well as timecode I/O.

    Basically the same as you. That is why £12000 is just too much for me but £2000 is do able. Hence my frustration.

    HP XW8600 Dual Quad Core 3 Ghz Windows 8 16 Gigs of Ram 24TB of Raid 10 sata storage Media Composer 7 Matrox MX02 Mini [view my complete system specs]

    www.mikegreen.tv

  • Sat, Jul 31 2010 9:55 PM In reply to

    Re: Why HP should be upset with Avid!

    Job ter Burg:
    Aren't decks and such a dying breed in an increasingly file-based industry?
    Not if the industry is smart!! File based sucks for long form where in most of my cases I need to keep the original footage.

    45% of my footage arrives on HDCAM or HDCAM SR, 25% on XDCAM HD, 10% on EX, 10% on HDV, the rest flie based Red P2 and minicams.  So yes I own the decks. I would much rather manage the tapes than the 20 terrarabytes of harddrives I needed for last years file based footage.

  • Sat, Jul 31 2010 10:39 PM In reply to

    • editmk
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    Re: Why HP should be upset with Avid!

    I buy a new 2 TB drive for each job. The western digital ones have a small screen on the outside of the drive which you can use software in your computer to label. The screen works when the drive is unplugged. The drive is not much bigger than a tape. 

    A touch more expensive than a tape but I pass the cost on to clients. They don't mind if it means they can come back in years later and still have access to their media. 

    Here is a link to the drives I buy.

    http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=754

    HP XW8600 Dual Quad Core 3 Ghz Windows 8 16 Gigs of Ram 24TB of Raid 10 sata storage Media Composer 7 Matrox MX02 Mini [view my complete system specs]

    www.mikegreen.tv

  • Sat, Jul 31 2010 11:19 PM In reply to

    Re: Why HP should be upset with Avid!

    Andrew,

    I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I'm seeing a steady move towards file-based acquisition and delivery.

    Indeed, archiving these files is a huge issue of concern. 2TB drives are cool, but not very safe, IMHO (no offense, Mike, just my experience).

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jul 31 2010 11:26 PM In reply to

    Re: Why HP should be upset with Avid!

    editmk:
    £12000 is just too much for me

    Nitris DX standalone is much less than that, more like 8700 GBP. And you can have Mojo DX for around 3900 GBP. Mojo DX also gives you HD-SDI out for your lay-offs. If just for lay-offs, you could even consider getting a used Adrenaline with the HD option board.

    Nowhere near AJA/BMD/Motu pricing, I agree, but not as bad as the 12 grand you mention, and just pointing out the options.

     

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Aug 1 2010 10:06 AM In reply to

    • editmk
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Mon, Sep 10 2007
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    Re: Why HP should be upset with Avid!

    Job ter Burg:
    Nitris DX standalone is much less than that, more like 8700 GBP. And you can have Mojo DX for around 3900 GBP.

    Again I stand corrected. The price I was quoting was with software bundle. 

    None the less, still at least double a Matrox MX02 Rack if you buy Mojo and Nitris is still over 4 times the price. I am aware Nitris does more.

    Perhaps my real argument should be that the entry level HD SDI in and out is twice as expensive as on a Premiere and FCP system. 

    Thanks for correcting my prices. 

    HP XW8600 Dual Quad Core 3 Ghz Windows 8 16 Gigs of Ram 24TB of Raid 10 sata storage Media Composer 7 Matrox MX02 Mini [view my complete system specs]

    www.mikegreen.tv

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