RodneyinMunich:

How product development is going to solve problems like a dead editing computer on a ship to Antarctica will be very interesting

And yet, there is a plan for that...stay tuned.

RodneyinMunich:

believe this is close to the Athenian form of democracy, where those citizens who bother to go to the agora get to make their point. Pity none of this discussion matters very much any more: the SA barbarians are at the gates...

But please don't push it Rodney... keep it cool and OT.

I do not agree with your term "SA barbarians" I don't see SA as bad. I understand very well that, as Todd is saying, users have asked to have Software Activation and believe they had good reason to do so.

Pardon me if I am stupid but I have a lot of trouble with all this "The product department is working really hard to come up with a solution ......"

For me it is simple and each of the three part option solution suggested below havs been individually used successfully for years.

GO with SOFTWARE ACTIVATION.  It's only a simple key taking milliseconds to do at todays CPU speeds. (used to be called a dongle updater)

1: For Networks, News rooms, Education facilities, large Studios and anyone who wants to do it by choice Avid software activates their server which in turn deals with all seats connected to the server. (server based technology doing this has been around for well over a decade)

2: For individuals who want software activation use current internet based option

3: For those who want a dongle style solution instead of sending the the software activation to a CPU's harddrive allow it to go to a USB  type device or more securely iLoks.  You have had the Dongle database for 15 years that I know of so it should be an easy step to make, one that Digi managed to do seamlessly years back.

Basis for a solution??  Took 1 mind 10 minutes to draft after reading the last 3 pages on this thread that appears since I visited the land of Nod, coupled with listening and HEARING whats been written.  (all 3 parts of this suggested solution contained individually in various other post throughout this thread)

Randall L Rike:

Rental companies prefer dongles.

Thats interesting as I thought rental companies would want the opposite.  For a large rental house, the dongle seems to be one more thing to keep up with when sending systems out and checking in.  Interesting....so what would happen if I rented a system but lost the dongle...would the rental company charge me for the software?  This is not a question to re-ignite the debate, but just curious...

Larry Rubin:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember seeing one single post in this thread or other related "dongle" threads where anyone has proposed killing the dongle and going exclusively SA.

Not correcting you, Larry, as I think your observations are correct.....

....... BUT......

If the future is looking more and more like SA is going to happen, then there is no need for "dongle-killers" to post anything. They can just sit back and watch the others who want to keep the dongle present their case.

Regards,
Douglas

"... Thats interesting as I thought rental companies would want the opposite ..."

Nope.  If your re-imaging large quantities of systems, after each comes back, the dongle is the fastest way to relicense the systems.

"... but lost the dongle...would the rental company charge me for the software? ..."

Obviously, yes.  However, the Accord Addendum to your insurace policy makes them the beneficiary for the system and accessories.  So, in fact, you'd file a claim with your insurance company, and they'd pay the rental company directly.

Having rented quite a few systems, here is the deal on that.  A very large portion of the time, (read 99.9%) whenever a systems is set up, the rental house sends a person to do the setup.  They also check the system and run it thru it's paces to make sure it is working properly.  They always plug the dongle into a place where it is out of harms way and is not likely to get broken off or messed with.  When the show is over, or the system needs to get moved to the next location, they send someone back out and they take care of the move so the assistants don't have to.  There is never any need for the people renting the system to mess with or even worry about the dongle.  The tech always gives you the speech about "do not lose or break this piece of plastic."

Under all of the agreements I signed, if a piece of the system is broken due to outright negligence on the renter's part, we had to pay for the damage.  I always read this piece of the contract to include the dongle.  So, if I decide to move the system 5 miles down the road to a new production office without the help of the rental house and I destroy or lose the dongle, well, "Lucy, you've got some 'splainin' to do."

As for the rental house having the dongle as one more thing to deal with on sending out and checking in, every system I ever used came in at least 12 boxes there were tons of cables, connectors and misc parts, the dongle was not the smallest part and without any number of them, you really couldn't do a days work.  Plus, it's kind of their job to know that everything is there when it goes out.

jveekeres:

From what I read I already have 3 moderators being in favor of keeping the dongle. Any moderators in favor of loosing it?

Short answer from me: I have not yet upgraded to 3.5  As a human being I feel a bit of "fear of the unknown".
But I have a few bits of software on my computers that have SA. They all work well. They also have ways of activation over the phone. I will probably keep the dongle when I do install 3.5 - But I am prepared to be flexible about the future.

Long answer! (if you are feeling sleepy - go to bed and read this when you wake up tomorrow )

Fear of change and the unknown is a normal human reaction.
In this thread we have a wide range of reasons for wanting to keep the dongle.
From cold hard facts about costs to more emotional first signs of fear of change.

Sit down and think back through your life a little.
I think most of us, at some time or other, have been faced with a drastic change in our lives. We were laid off from a job we had kept for 20 years. Our house was destroyed by fire. We were injured in a car crash and lost the use of our eyes...etc.
Pretty drastic examples................ find your own in your life.

Faced by the change (which usually takes place in a split second of our life) we felt depressed, burned out with no hope for the future.
But we didn't give up we continued and we ADAPTED to the new life style.
In many cases the new life style was better than that we had had before. The new job we found unlocked new talents that we did not know we had. We built a new and better house. In our blindness we developed our other senses and found hidden talents. etc.

Now IF the dongle is to disappear, that is a big blow to many. For many different reasons.
The financial reasons are difficult for me to address , but for those who are having "fear of the unknown" symptoms let me paint a picture of how I see the scenario.

Scenario 1: Oh, My G.. They are taking away my dongle. I will fight to the bitter end. I will post my case daily on the Forums. I will repeat myself over and over again. I will do this from day 1 until the actual day that the dongle is pronounced dead. Whether it be a month or a year from now I will spend a lot of time fighting the inevitable (NB. I am not saying that it is inevitable... this is just a make believe situation).
The Day of the Dongle Death arrives. I then have to choose to go with SA or maybe change NLEs.

Scenario 2: Oh my G.. They are taking away my dongle. Let's see what possibilities SA has. What are the drawbacks in my opinion? Can I suggest some things that I worry about so that Avid can get some feedback and take my worries into consideration when planning the arrival of SA. Do I know of any product using SA that I feel works well. I'll tell Avid so they can take a look at how the other products SA works.
Can I come with constructive criticism that may give Avid developers some inspiration about a path they may have missed.
The Day of the Dongle Death arrives. I have already gotten used to the idea and have no trouble in switching.

Bill (Cuervo) hit the nail on the head a few posts back:

cuervo:

Since it would appear the SA solution is inevitable, and in the interests of offering constructive comments rather than otherwise, I would offer the following suggestions(not that I expect to be listened to):
1-that avid allow concurrent licensing on one laptop and one desktop workstation. many software vendors already do this.
or
2-that a single license be allowed on a local network, that can be transferred across said local network to the active workstation, without a need to connect to the internet to transfer said license. I would find it agreeable to register each workstation on said LAN to prevent license transfer to workstations off the LAN, either by mistake or by intention.

Regards,
Douglas

so what would happen if I rented a system but lost the dongle...would the rental company charge me for the software?

.- What happen if you rent a car but lost the tires?

Of course they'll have to charge you.

Anyone at least familiar with an Avid knows the value of a the dongle. If they don't, you can be sure the rental house will let them know

The thing I dont understand is why so much effort is being expended by Avid to address our concerns with SA when the solution already exists, is in place, is tried and tested and has been shown to work in conjunction with SA - the dongle!  And to say we need a support contract to continue to use this in place system is even more sad.  Now, if you are a new user and choose to have a dongle, fine hit them with a support contract to get them up and running.  But for all of us with them already, why not continue to allow us to choose when we upgrade?

On the constructive suggestions for SA...

1 - A West Coast Oz timezone (Singapore/Hong Kong) support centre available by phone without a suppoort contract.

2 - 2 active systems allowed on each registration as per XSI.  Perhaps limit it to 1 x current version and 1 x legacy version so that you are not trying to get 2 for the price of one. This would allow those with older hardware to continue to use it.

3 - Emergency activation - Software can be activated without internet.  You get a nominal time before it saves and shuts down.  You can still restart it but cant use it un-interrupted without re-activating.  Say a time period of 2~4 hours.  This not available in the free trail, registered users only.

4 - Fully activated if you own Avid hardware - ie a new version of the dongle.  Like the Digi is to Protools, you own a Mojo etc (or, fingers crossed, HD monitoring card at sub $2500) your system is activated.

5 - most important - and probably not going to happen - keep offering bothe SA and dongle as it is already in place!

And a question with SA - does it require the internet to be open on system startup?  Does the system re-verify your status each time you start up or only when you move the activation?  Avid XSI required things to be open 100% and if your net was down, bad luck, you dont start up.

Carl,

That is what I am talking about!

Good stuff there!

Regards,

Douglas

And 1 more!!

6 - Owners of dongle get to keep them to use on their legacy systems with the next upgrade - without killing the dongle - as a sweetener.  That would keep a user like myself on the upgrade path whilst retaining my ability to use my old system on its dongle.  Effectively, give dongle users a license to use a second machine with their dongle for the price of an upgrade.

I like this last one the best!  Would be a great bit of PR and a fantastic deal for loyal customers!

I want to keep the dongle, as I expressed much earlier in this thread.  However, at the College where I teach I can't wait to request an upgrade to our 10 Avid systems just so I don't have to worry about the dongle anymore.  It's a pain to get them out of a locked cabinet and collect them at the end of class, and if the students want to work outside of class they have to find faculty to get them a dongle.

However, I want to keep the dongle so I can run legacy versions of the software.  If I buy an upgrade that has some serious problems, or Avid releases another point release like 3.1.0 (I think that was the dud), I need to be able to roll back immediately to keep working.

So, if Avid allows you to use Software Activation to run legacy software too (also great to test old systems to see how "new" of a version they can run) than I'll be okay with it.  Especially if I can use a non-Avid system to somehow activate or deactivate my system.  I have forgotten the dongle at work before, and being able to log into Avid's site to deactivate it could be a lifesaver.  So that's an improvement I'd like to see.  And I'll also vote to have an install on a desktop and/or laptop (but of course both can't be open at once, like Adobe has).

Michael

Douglas,

Thx for your reply. Your point is well taken. I want to make it clear i am possitve towards change. I think evolution is the better word. But yes I am also human and also a professional that knows that in a professional environment where deadlines have to be met and we are using integrated systems change requires testing.

Some posters show that SA works fine for them but others show it still has shortcommings. Avid acknowledges those and will improve. I have no boubt avid will come up with solutions.

My main problem is with the way we are "sold" SA. Avid says this is a "majority" user request. I'm not saying that is a lie. What I'm saying is that I'm 99% sure there is a majority of users that would support keeping both. The users needing SA do not care if others keep using their dongle. The kill of the dongle is NOT by user request.

So Avid decided that they have to kill a feature and at the same time claim they want to create a product that meets the needs of 100% of its user base. Well if you really mean that, THEN KEEP BOTH!!! When making that statement it doesn't even matter anymore if the "dongle lovers" are a minority or majority anymore.  The way avid handles the transition process from SA to dongle makes me feel i'm being patronized. And I want to make clear that this remark is in no way directed to any specific avid employee or moderator!

Anyway.... When SA has evoluted into its "functional" version I will happely use it and hang my dongles in a christmas tree as decoration. But as a long time user I respectfully request avid "marketing" to stop this. After the upgrade price/AMA/"end to end" XDCAM support it is the second time in less the a year that I believe avid is, like I said before, not in sync with the intelectual base of its users.

If avid has to report bad news, then they should do so. A simple, "we are sorry to report that in the current economical situation we can't uphold 2 activation systems" would for me made the acceptance much more simple.

jveekeres:

If avid has to report bad news, then they should do so. A simple, "we are sorry to report that in the current economical situation we can't uphold 2 activation systems" would for me made the acceptance much more simple.

jwrl:

The new announcement is "Great news!  We're still dropping the dongle!"