Hi there,

I've been using external fw drives, but I'm about to start editing HD (35mbps) and thought that perhaps I should set myself up with a slightly better (faster?) system.  My situation might be a little different from others on this forum in that I'm starting to shoot with a tapeless camera, so I also need to store/archive my footage (I won't have a tape to go back to).

Anyway, I'm curious to know what other Avid editors have settled on.

I was pretty keen on an about-to-be-released Caldigit product called the HDOne:

http://www.caldigit.com/HDOne/

which promises 20Gbps, and can be RAIDED in various ways, but this is still pretty expensive ($2,300 for a 2T system).  Is it worth it, do you think?

The alternative that I was considering would be a 2-bay SATA hard drive enclosure:

http://www.wiebetech.com/products/RTX200.php

The nice thing about this is that it's cheap ($300), even after you include the cost of some SATA drives (SATA drives are not that expensive: eg. at Staples you can now get a 500GB SATA drive for $104).

Again, this enclosure takes standard SATA drives, and you don't have to put them into a tray of any sort first:  the raw drive just gets inserted into the bay.  My workflow could be: pop in a couple SATA drives, use them to edit a project, then pop them out and store them when I start a new project.  I realize I won't have the security of RAID, but if I make sure I have a back-up of the raw footage before I start editing, is this such a problem?

I'd love to know what people think of these possibilities.  And if there's a better way to go, please let me know.

Malcolm

I recall a post by Rinze Schuurman. He built a very afforable solution, and provided the details in his posting. *edit*: I just found it, but I think the one I remember is about shared storage.

I own two of those Wiebetech trayless bays, each in every HP computer, plus a two-disk eSATA box. The first are in use to quickly create all-media backups (up to 1TB per disk) of my projects. Very nice. Occasionally, I've done a short project straight from such a drive, never more than 1:1x SD, though, and very few effects, so not sure how it holds up under heavier demand.

Notice that the 2-bay box has one eSATA connector per drive, and that you need to have two ports available if you need to hook up two disks. Some other drive bays can do internal RAID, which improves performance.

Job ter Burg:

 Occasionally, I've done a short project straight from such a drive, never more than 1:1x SD, though, and very few effects, so not sure how it holds up under heavier demand.

Notice that the 2-bay box has one eSATA connector per drive, and that you need to have two ports available if you need to hook up two disks. Some other drive bays can do internal RAID, which improves performance.

Hi Job.  So SATA drives like this, if not RAIDed, might not be fast enough for HD work (especially rendering, I'd imagine)?  I think I see what you mean about the one eSATA connector per drive issue with this Wiebetech trayless bay - - it would be better to have one eSATA connector on the bay, that would connect both drives at once, right? (since I have just one ExpressCard/e-SATA port on my MacBook Pro)

So you use the Wiebetech trayless bays for backups... what do you use for your actual editing?

Cheers, Malcolm

We've been using the Fusion 500p by sonnet technology. it is a 5 bay esata enclosure and you can choose your raid config.

it is reliable, FAST and pretty cost effective.

Damon 

Hi Serleejus - - just checked the Sonnet website.  These units seem to be out of stock and can no longer be purchased (hmmm - - maybe just out of stock?)

I have a question for you, regardless.  The Fusion 500 certainly looks nice (as does the Caldigit HDOne), but with something like that, you're stuck with Sonnet - - which may be a good thing - - but might also be an expensive thing.  I notice extra drives are $339 each (for 500GB), instead of the $104 drive I mentioned.

Now maybe it's 'you-get-what-you-pay-for'; but I'd be interested in hearing from others, like Job, who have an e-SATA drive set-up (like the Wiebetech tray-less drive bay) that uses just regular off-the-shelf SATA drives.  

(as mentioned above, the reason I'm hopeful something like this might be good, is that I need a good hd set-up for editing and storage)

Cheers, Malcolm

mhamilton:

So SATA drives like this, if not RAIDed, might not be fast enough for HD work (especially rendering, I'd imagine)?

There are many flavors of HD. I'm pretty sure you cannot run Uncompressed 10b HD from a single SATA drive, but if 1:1x SD works, then so should various compressed flavors of HD.

Wouldn't matter for rendering, though, since that is not necessarily realtime. Drive performance counts when you have realtime multilayer sequences to play back. Also, capturing requires some speed overhead.

mhamilton:

it would be better to have one eSATA connector on the bay, that would connect both drives at once, right?

mhamilton:

what do you use for your actual editing

Unity Lanshare. But I've done offline editing (14:1p or DV25) from FireWire400 drives and internal IDE drives before, as well as some occasional 1:1x SD editing off internal SATA drives (internal or via Wiebetech bay).

 Hi, i know for a fact that they are still making them, I've got another on order. The best is to buy your own drives and place them in,

Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 750GB SATA2 7200RPM 32MB Cache NCQ 3.5IN Hard Drive

cost is about $150 per drive

"Drive performance counts when you have realtime multilayer sequences to play back. Also, capturing requires some speed overhead"

The sequences I edit might have five or six video tracks - - is that multi-layer?  If it's not, then these SATA drives might be fast enough, correct?

"... it would be better to have one eSATA connector on the bay, that would connect both drives at once, right?"                                                                                                                             "Which means it's got to have a RAID controller. Then you are limited by the speed of the SATA bus, not the speed of a single drive"

So if I go with a RAID set-up, I need a RAID controller.  If I don't go for RAID, though, then I can use these drives one at a time, which should be fine for my projects (never more than half-an-hour long), is that right?  What I'd do is connect my MBP to one of the SATA drives in this Wiebetech bay, edit my project (hope the drive doesn't crash, because it's not RAIDed for backup), and then, when finished, slip the drive out, put it on the shelf, and pop a new hundred-dollar drive in, for the next project.  What do you think?

Cheers, Malcolm

 Actually, it is in stock by Sonnet

http://store1.sonnettech.com/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=219&osCsid=b4ea8a5cccef45e05b91811a668f4ad0

Fusion D500P E-series
[FUS-D5P-00TB]

Thanks, Serieejus... I don't know how or why I was directed to that faulty information (just so you don't think I'm insane, here's where I went:  http://store1.sonnettech.com/product_info.php?cPath=23_45&products_id=168 

Anyway, the good news for me is that you can add your own drives (I was afraid the bay would just use Sonnet drives) - - so any SATA drive.... just pop it in a tray and pop it in... easy enough. On the correct Sonnet page, I see that the $1695 package comes with: 

Sonnet Fusion D500P enclosure, (5) 500GB Enterprise/RAID hard drive modules, (1) eSATA cable, eSATA cable locks, power cable, and User's Guide.

Does this mean five 500GB SATA drives are included, or when it says modules, does it mean "trays"?  Does this Sonnet unit come with the "RAID controller" that Job spoke of?

One last note, since you're expanding your hard drive set-up.  Have you checked out the Caldigit HDOne?  (see link in my first post if you're interested)

Thanks, Malcolm

It's not so much the amount of layers, as it is what is on those layers. If you make a stack of 6 different shots, all coming from the same drive over the same bus, and they are composited so that all 6 shots are visible on screen at a single moment in time, then your system needs to supply 6 times the bandwith compared to a situation where it needs to play back a single shot at a time. A single shot with 2 or 3 different effects applied to it is often easier to handle.

Hey.. there's no point buying the onw in your reply

** Sonnet Fusion D500P enclosure, (5) 500GB Enterprise/RAID hard drive modules, (1) eSATA cable, eSATA cable locks, power cable, and User's Guide.**

that one is 2.5tb for i think you mentioned 1700?

if you buy the enclosure only and add your own 5 x 500gb drives you would be at 2.5tb for about $1100 or so.

the best is to buy the enclosure as we have done, and add your own drives. you literally just take out their bays (they come with the bare enclosure) and screw in your drives, and slide it in the unit.

the only extra thing you would have to buy is their pcie esata controller. I would recommend theirs as it is probably the best in the industry.

i've heard of the caldigit, but haven't seen it. i'll take a look at it.

thanks, Damon

Oh, this is the controller that you would need

http://www.sonnettech.com/product/tempo_sata_e4p.html

Thanks Damon,

I can't use that controller, because I have a MacBook Pro (but I think Sonnet makes one for my ExpressCard slot), so I'll look into it.  You're right, the savings with Sonnet are significant.  Please do let me know what you think of the Caldigit, though.  I'd be curious to know what you think.

Malcolm

 Yes, we use the express card for the macbook pros as well. it works flawlessly!

Its reletively inexpensive - I think about a hundredish and here it is

http://www.sonnettech.com/product/tempo_sata_express34.html