Hi there,

Just wanting to pass on something I heard about a Matrox box that was showing at NAB.
From what I gather - - and please be advised that I got this second-hand and don't have a good grasp of technical issues at the best of times - - the MXO, although it can’t be considered the same quality as Avid hardware, might nevertheless be very good as a low-cost monitoring solution for a lot of us (not for those who do colour-correction, etc.)

I guess the biggest problem with Full Screen Playback is the lack of sync - - if the monitor isn’t 'gen-locked', it was explained to me, there could be an occasional glitch. But there's a card that can be added for sync <http://www.nvidia.com/page/quadrofx_gsync.html> and this could make the MXO a bona fide option for some of us.  Doesn't do me any good, I guess, because I'm using a MacBook Pro, but might work for some of you.

Cheers,

Malcolm

 .-The MXO already has a genlock input.

And it doesn't work as a simple full display overlay, is way more accurate, complex and better than that:

"Matrox engineers have skillfully avoided color space conversions by tapping into the Mac's graphics card before the YUV signal is converted to RGB, so the MXO performs similarly to a dedicated video card." - Frank Capria 

And I've been told ( and I've read) it is broadcast quality, with SDI / component out (suitable for delivery), professional calibration, blue only mode and even embedded audio.

Sadly, is MAC ONLY, and works only with applications that supports the V-out quicktime component.

Not sure if Avid enters in that category.

BTW, MXO is not a new product, has been around for quite some time.

And has already been discussed in this forum. But thanks anyway for the intention.

MXO2 is the newest.

Also Mac only.

Thanks for the update/corrections, raspago.  I'm sorry you can't make use of what sounds like such an interesting product - - you say it may not work with Media Composer, but I'm pretty sure I heard that Avid and Matrox were at NAB together, and MC, probably v. 3,  was working with the MXO (not sure whether the MXO or the MXO2). 

Anyone else know anything about this?

Malcolm

Quite a coincidence... when I checked my email after sending in the post above, there was a response from Matrox, regarding some questions I sent to them a week ago, when news of the MXO2 first surfaced.

I'll quote:

Here are the MXO2 key features :
Truly portable - fits in your laptop bag, runs off a field battery (or
its AC adapter) 
HD/SD SDI, HD/SD analog component, Y/C, and composite inputs and outputs

Genlock - SD analog black burst (bi-level) or HD tri-level sync 
HDMI input, output, and monitoring with calibration controls including
blue-only 
10-bit realtime hardware up/down/cross conversion 
Up to five user selectable simultaneous video outputs - HD and/or SD on
HDMI, SDI, and analog 
Professional audio inputs and outputs with 5.1 surround sound monitoring

RS-422 machine control for frame-accurate capture and print-to-tape 
Captures to a variety of codecs - Apple ProRes 422 HQ, 10-bit
uncompressed HD, and many more 
Supports file-based workflows - XDCAM, XDCAM HD, XDCAM EX, P2 
Works with Final Cut Pro, Apple Color, Adobe Premiere Pro and all
QuickTime applications that support the V-out component 
For use with Intel-based MacBook Pros and Mac Pros 
http://www.matrox.com/video/en/products/mxo2/features/

The Matrox MXO2 works with Final Cut Pro, Apple Color, Adobe Premiere
Pro and all QuickTime applications that support the V-out component.
Since Avid Media Composer doesn't have the V-out component, the Matrox
MXO2 will not support Avid Media Composer. Also, since the MXO2 doesn't
have a presentation mode that is included with the MXO, Avid Media
Composer cannot be viewed though the MXO2.

A Matrox Apple-compatible product that will work with Avid Media
Composer is the Matrox MXO :
http://www.matrox.com/video/en/products/mxo/features/
Since the MXO has both Presentation and Mastering modes, Avid Media
Composer can be viewed through the MXO's presentation mode.

Hi again - - would love some clarification.  

According to Matrox:   "Avid Media Composer can be viewed through the MXO's presentation mode"...

What, exactly, does this mean?  Does it mean that if I used the MXO, I could edit HD and have a better look (on my Cinema Display) at what I'm doing than I otherwise can?

And, just to confirm, on the subject of the MXO2:  even if Media Composer v. 3 were to show up with a V-out component, the MXO2 still wouldn't work with it, because the MXO2 "doesn't have a presentation mode"... Right? 

thanks, Malcolm

And, just to confirm, on the subject of the MXO2:  even if Media Composer v. 3 were to show up with a V-out component, the MXO2 still wouldn't work with it, because the MXO2 "doesn't have a presentation mode"... Right?

.- No, because they MXO and MXO2, despite being named similarily, are totally different products.

The MXO is output only and uses the DVI connector of the Video card to obtain it's signal.

The MXO is an I/O box and is PCIe based.

Avid will never support a box like this, it would kill their own hardware line.

But the since the MXO is an output only box, which does not use any PCIe acceleration or DNxHD encoding, could be.

Maybe they could buy an OEM version from Matrox and port it to MC (and Windows).

Time will tell.

BTW, I don't know why this product is MAC only, Matrox would sell several thousands more if the MXO were Windows compatible.

Time will tell.

There was an extensive thread covering the pros and cons of using the MXO in actual editing situations. You might want to read through it.

http://community.avid.com/forums/t/44014.aspx

Since working with the MXO we recently switched to using the Decklink Extreme cards which seem to be much better at working with Avid's "Fullscreen" option - and for roughly the same price as the MXO.

Curiosity - thanks for that link.  I am just now getting on a project (RED cam stuff) where I'll have to have HD monitoring capabilities.

That other thread ended end of last year looks like - you are saying now that you are using declink as opposed - does everything else still apply from the prior thread?  Can I use decklink for HDMI out to a typical widescreen LCD for the director?

THANKS.

BTW - we could all just read this article and imagine it says "2008" instead of 1998: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=82844&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=4915&highlight=

.-Decklink cards doesn't work with Avid.

At all.

Not for input, not for output, not for monitoring, not for nothing.

Avid won't even recognize the card.

Avid only works with their hardware.

But MXO might work , since it depends on the Video Card's output and not on the Application or any internal bus..

Sort of.

And I didn't see any cons in that thread.

Actually, I haven't read anything but good reviews.

The only cons would be:

Is not totally compatible with Avid  yet (only presentation mode) and, unfortunately,  is MAC ONLY.

My only hope is , since is output only,  it doesn't conflict with any othe Avid's hardware nor have any DNxHD encoding or Avid acceleration, Avid wouldnt mind if Matrox makes it Avid compatible.

Or Avid might buy a OEM version, port it to MC, put the Avid logo on it and sell it as an affordable monitoring alternative to their already unpopular new Mojo DX.

raspago:

.-Decklink cards doesn't work with Avid.

At all.

Not for input, not for output, not for monitoring, not for nothing.

Avid won't even recognize the card.

Avid only works with their hardware.

Not true. I'm using the Decklink Extreme right now as I type this to monitor my HDV footage in realtime and in sync to a client NTSC SD display from my Media Composer 2.8 timeline.

You are correct that Avid doesn't recognize the Decklink card, but using "Fullscreen" mode you can get a real-time output via the Decklink Display card to a client monitor. If the computer is fast enough it can display a 59.94 image without dropping frames.

And I didn't see any cons in that thread.

The big problem we had using the MXO box was: if you are trying to use the MXO to output a realtime downconvert and/or HD to tape option, and your computer is not the latest model - it drops frames on the output. Thus, the Quad G5 was fine working with 2.6 but started having troubles with the update to 2.7. We discovered that using the Decklink card was a little snappier and could give us realtime output from a slightly slower Macintosh.

jasperfdo:

That other thread ended end of last year looks like - you are saying now that you are using declink as opposed - does everything else still apply from the prior thread?  Can I use decklink for HDMI out to a typical widescreen LCD for the director?

I was working with a director in February that had mixed HD and SD footage and he wanted to see the difference between the quality of each. So I set up our LCD HD-SDI display and connected it to the Decklink card. Using Avid's Fullscreen option the director got to preview his footage in realtime and decided the downconvert was acceptable. (It looked like a solid playback to my eye - two field 1080i - with no apparent frame dropouts.)

I don't know about HDMI - I haven't tested that. I can speak to the quality of SDI and analog outs working fine on our system via the Decklink. If you want specific system details I can spell them out (model of DL card, etc.) let me know.

You are correct that Avid doesn't recognize the Decklink card, but using "Fullscreen" mode you can get a real-time output via the Decklink Display card to a client monitor. If the computer is fast enough it can display a 59.94 image without dropping frames.

.- If the MXO specs are true, what you describe an inferior alternative to what MXO supposedly offers.

And using a decklink card for display purposes is also overkill, you could do near that with a cheaper video card in a Macfly configuration.

Maybe looks good to you, but Avid's  "full screen mode" is an inferior RGB overlay.

Maybe that's why you don't get drop frames.

And the MXO has a DVI connector you can use with a very good LCD. And "blue only" bars. Among other useful things

If you have a modern and beefy video card (MXO is picky with video cards, not only with computers) , MXO would be the way to go.

You are correct that Avid doesn't recognize the Decklink card, but using "Fullscreen" mode you can get a real-time output via the Decklink Display card to a client monitor. If the computer is fast enough it can display a 59.94 image without dropping frames.

.- If the MXO specs are true, what you describe an inferior alternative to what MXO supposedly offers.

And using a decklink card for display purposes is also overkill, you could do near that with a cheaper video card in a Macfly configuration.

Maybe looks good, but Avid's  "full screen mode" is an inferior RGB overlay.

Maybe that's why you don't get drop frames.

And the MXO has a DVI connector you can use with a very good LCD. And "blue only" bars. Among other useful things

If you have a modern and beefy video card (MXO is picky with video cards, not only with computers) , MXO would be the way to go.

raspago:

.- If the MXO specs are true, what you describe an inferior alternative to what MXO supposedly offers.

And using a decklink card for display purposes is also overkill, you could do near that with a cheaper video card in a Macfly configuration.

Perhaps something is in the works for the future - but in our current setup the only way to get output through the MXO was using the same Avid "Fullscreen" option. Avid doesn't recognize the MXO any better than the Decklink.

In our case what the DL offered was a faster response, cheaper price (than the MXO) and we can still use our older Macintosh systems and get fullscreen playback to our client display's without having to re-invest in a faster computer. In addition - the HD/SD inputs on the DL means our FCP systems can ingest HD sources, so for our systems it was a two-for-one deal. Furthermore - the Macfly option doesn't give us the option to play to interlaced client displays with genlock, and the DL does.

If you are working with different/better equipment, please post your workflow and I'd be happy to test new configurations. The best I can provide here is what we are actually working with right now to get work done, but I am always open to finding a better way to work.

Perhaps something is in the works for the future - but in our current setup the only way to get output through the MXO was using the same Avid "Fullscreen" option. Avid doesn't recognize the MXO any better than the Decklink.

.- Now, that's a real problem, my friend.

A very close friend of mine told me MXO with FCS works flawlesly,  He was very happy.

But with Avid?

That's the problem.