Latest post Fri, Oct 21 2005 1:05 PM by Brian Suttie. 7 replies.
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  • Tue, Oct 18 2005 9:06 AM

    Audio level monitoring

    I would like in the future to see The Audio Tool with the posibility to set different measuring methods.

    Unlike the waveform and vector scopes inside Avid, which let me do decent Color Correction without the need for an external scope, I always have to use an external Audio meter to set proper audio levels for broadcast mixing.

    In Norway, Europe, we use a PPM meter (with Nordic Scale), and the PPM meters have a slower response time than Avids internal meter. So levels that are within the Norwegian +6 dBU (-12dB digital) seem to be much higher (sometimes up to +12 dBU, or -6 dB digital) on the Avid meter, because it shows short peaks of audio that external meters don't.

    So I can't use the Avid meter to do proper broadcast postproduction.

    Thus, my feature request.

     

    regards

    Terje Oegema

    TV2, Norway.

     

  • Tue, Oct 18 2005 1:58 PM In reply to

    Re: Audio level monitoring

     Terje Oegema wrote:
    In Norway, Europe, we use a PPM meter (with Nordic Scale), and the PPM meters have a slower response time than Avids internal meter. So levels that are within the Norwegian +6 dBU (-12dB digital) seem to be much higher (sometimes up to +12 dBU, or -6 dB digital) on the Avid meter, because it shows short peaks of audio that external meters don't.

    Hi Terje,

    If the PPM meters aren't as fast as the Avid meters, then isn't the solution to get faster PPM meters?  I'm not trying to be an a$$; we have the same problem with the audio meters on Sony UVW-1800 decks.  Audio levels that look fine on the Avid audio meter and on a Mackie 1604 mixer look low on the Sony deck because the Sony meters are so slow to respond.  If we adjust the audio levels in the Avid to peak the Sony meters, then the Avid and Mackie levels look too high.  I chalk this up to a Sony problem, not an Avid problem.

    good luck,
    Carl

    Media Composer 2018.12.5 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Envy 17t-j100 Quad Edition laptop, Windows 10 Pro, Intel Core i7 2.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, nVidia GeForce... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Wed, Oct 19 2005 12:21 AM In reply to

    Re: Audio level monitoring

    Hi Carl. I see what your saying. But our PPM meters are nothing like the old VU meter.

    They are fast, but not Avid detailed. Bottom line: Since the broadcast industry uses these analogue/medium slow meters, THAT is what we have to use for reference. If I was to make sure no level came above + 6 dB (-12dBU) with the Avid meter, the audio level would be a lot lower on the "broadcast meters" and indeed sound lower than other production sound. We don't want that, now do we?

    I am not really sure what kind of "standard" response time these broadcast meters have compared to the internal Avid meter. All I know is that they don't match.

  • Wed, Oct 19 2005 12:29 AM In reply to

    Re: Audio level monitoring

     Terje Oegema wrote:
    Since the broadcast industry uses these analogue/medium slow meters, THAT is what we have to use for reference. If I was to make sure no level came above + 6 dB (-12dBU) with the Avid meter, the audio level would be a lot lower on the "broadcast meters" and indeed sound lower than other production sound. We don't want that, now do we?

    Certainly not. Smile [:)]

    In our case, we ran a little test.  The Avid, Mackie and Sony meters all agree when playing tone from the Avid.  When playing program audio, the Avid and Mackie agree, but the Sony looks low.  Since two of the three things we use to monitor audio are in agreement, we ignore the third one.

    Brilliant, huh? Smile [:)]

    Carl

    Media Composer 2018.12.5 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Envy 17t-j100 Quad Edition laptop, Windows 10 Pro, Intel Core i7 2.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, nVidia GeForce... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Wed, Oct 19 2005 9:50 AM In reply to

    • nigelad
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
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    Smile [:)] Re: Audio level monitoring

    I thought it was kind of well known that LED meters on video decks, like any VU meters, are slow to respond and therefore unreliable. PPM meters however are accepted around the world as the industy standard both in TV and radio, and relied upon for their fast response.
    It sounds to me like the Avid ones are not to be trusted, which is a shame, because I have trusted them over and above the UVW1800 deck meters.
    Just as software scopes are better than nothing, but no substitute for proper hardware, the same goes for meters.
    So, Terje, I would trust your PPMs, assuming that they are calibrated properly.
    By the way, in the UK most of us use the BBC standard, which is+6 on the PPM = -18dB digital. I guess different european broadcasters set different standards!
    ISIS 5500, MC 18.4 & PT 18.4 on Mac OS with BMD Mini-Monitors, an UltraStudio 4K and AJA T-taps. [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Oct 19 2005 3:17 PM In reply to

    • Brian Suttie
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Edinburgh, Scotland
    • Posts 917
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    Re: Audio level monitoring

    Don't you mean Line up at PPM4 = -18dB digital, peak 8dB above that, i.e. PPM6 = -10 digital

    If anyone is looking for a software solution to aid audio monitoring you should check out :

    free ppm

    regards

    Brian

    "We'll fix it in post"
    "This is post"
    "aaaahh"

  • Thu, Oct 20 2005 2:38 PM In reply to

    Re: Audio level monitoring

    Those FREE PPM meters look nice, but how can I use them in Avid?

    Even with "always on top" set, they don't show my Avid sound (at least not on a Media Composer).

    Tried playing a sound file in Windows, but the meters didn't show anything.

    Do you know how to use them? Maybe they will work with Avid Xpress Pro??

  • Fri, Oct 21 2005 1:05 PM In reply to

    • Brian Suttie
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Edinburgh, Scotland
    • Posts 917
    • Points 11,570

    Re: Audio level monitoring

    Terge

    I don't think they will work with Media Composer because of it's use of dedicated hardware for audio.  You can use them in Xpress products however.  From memory you need to go to "settings" "Audio Soundcard"? and check the box that says "Use windows audio mixer"?  (sorry I'm not in front of a system at the moment).  Then play some reference tone and adjust the windows mixer to the correct level.  This is a bit fiddly because as soon as you change focus to the mixer window the tone from Avid stops so you will have to go between the windows a few times.  However once set up they're pretty useful.

    regards

    Brian   

    "We'll fix it in post"
    "This is post"
    "aaaahh"

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