I'm trying to find a way to cut footage from the RED ONE, in Avid. The thing I came up with was going from REDCINE to SCRATCH, from there going off to a Sony HDCAM SR Tape and then digitizing into Media Composer for the Offline (DNxHD 36) and then the Online in DS Nitris at 1080P. Now is there any way to get that Avid DS Nitris Project off to another editor to bring me back to full res.? If not, I'd be happy with the 1080P version a master for a film out; I was planning on shooting HDCAM SR anyway; the RED is just cheaper to buy.

My suggestion is to check out the Avid Workflow forum at Reduser.net - people there probably no a lot more about it than most of us.

Me and the owner of that forum don't get along, so I'd rather not. I've been banned a couple times from DVXUser.

Might be worth coming up with a new persona and being extra nice on there - unfortunately they are pretty much the only place for any serious RED info online at the moment.

Basically the workflow with RED now is convert (with Redalert or Redcine) to DNxHD quicktime. Import into Avid. Set timecode and reel data. Edit.

From there, I guess, it should be possible to reconform later in DS from 2K DPX output files, but that part of the process is really beyond me - I have no experience at all with DS or any workflow even remotely similar to that.

It's the setting the metadata that is apparently somewhat tricky. If nothing else, I'd suggest an anonymous visit and browse around, it's explained a bit better there, by people with more experience than me.

I'm going to a RED thing next week, so I'll try and pinch some footage to play with or something.

Okay, well that's definately not pratical for me. I guess I'll just stick with the F23 then, was hoping to shot atleast 2k, though. I've been over to Reduser a couple of times, on the Avid Forum, and they haven't listed a pratical solution for me either.

You can't do 4K in Avid. You have to go to Scratch or Quantel for this stuff.

The current "supported" Red worklow is to offline in FCP and online in Scratch.

You can convert to DNxHD QTs to work in Avid.

Exactly.... I said nothing about 4k in Avid. I said getting to a HDCAM SR Tape (which is always 1080P) and doing the Off-/On- Line in that. Then move that to Scratch for a 4k final; I just need to know the most practical way to move the 1080P Online final to Scratch to get the 4k done.

Sorry about that, looking back I see there was no mention of 4K. I thought there was.

If you are going to work at 1080P, here is the cheap and easy solution. You take your Red files into FCP at 1080. This is done by exporting a QT REF file from RedCine which will play in FCP with the Red codec.

Then you spit those out to HDCAMSR and work wherever you want.

If you want to do 2K, you can work in FCP via the Kona 2K wrapper utiltity. Then I suppose you could send that to Color. (There's something to test).

Or spit out a rendered sequence from FCP, convert back to 2K sequence via Kona utility, then take that to the finishing program of your choice.

Or, work in FCP with a low res version of the files that you spit out from RedCine or Red Alert, for your offline, and conform the RED files in Scratch which supports them natively.

Or spit out QT files, rename in Avid to identify the source, and fight with reconforming later.

At this point in the game, FCP is the way the way to handle RED offline. We'll see if and when Avid gets in the game.

The best option seems to be...

• Export Quicktime (DNxHD) from Redcine
• Import into Avid
• Modify Source and Timecode data for imported clips
• Edit
• Export EDL
• Conform from DPX files at 2K or 4K (whatever your system allows)

However...
Apparently RedCine is not exporting DNxHD (or at least my local RED testers are having no luck) - with the Avid codecs on the Mac they're using, it says it will, but the file is useless, and the codec settings can't be accessed from RedCine. Exporting to DNxHD from Quicktime Pro on the same system works as expected - so not a codec problem.

Also, modifying clip metadata can be problematic... My current process, which seems to work without any obvious problems is:

• Select clip, use Modify and 'Set Source'
• Select clip, use Modify and 'Set Timecode by Field' setting the start timecode to whatever

It is necessary to set a source first, otherwise you can't change the timecode.

On the Red forums there is suggestion that it's necessary to export and ALE, edit it, and go through another import process. I've not found this to be the case.

I don't know anything about conforming from DPX, but assuming that with a 'reel' and timecode you can do what's necessary, then this should work.

.- RED just came out, all their software is still in beta flow.

RED was "Vaporware", "Fantasyware", "Idonotknoware" not long ago.

What's everybody's rush?

Not only Avid, everybody else will get in the game eventually.


And is RED who should be worried about getting into the Avid workflow.

Like it or not, in the high market, Avid is still the king.

And in the RUSH department (news and the likes) Avid will be king even longer.

People can yell, disagree, feel offended but that's the undisputable truth

At least for now.

raspago:

And is RED who should be worried about getting into the Avid workflow.

I think RED has more leverage at this point. They are hot. They have an existing workflow all the way up to 2K. Peter Jackson already proved it.

raspago:

Like it or not, in the high market, Avid is still the king.

That would be real news to Quantel and Discrete. ;-)

raspago:

And in the RUSH department (news and the likes) Avid will be king even longer.

That will depend upon the success of FC server.

raspago:

People can yell, disagree, feel offended but that's the undisputable truth

At least for now.

I just disputed you, and I'm not yelling. It would appear that I'm looking at this with a bit more of an open mind than you are at this point. You obviously feel you have a lot to defend here. I don't.

TCurren:

raspago:

And is RED who should be worried about getting into the Avid workflow.

I think RED has more leverage at this point. They are hot. They have an existing workflow all the way up to 2K. Peter Jackson already proved it.


.- They might have leverage but Avid has the Hollywood/Primetime userbase.

 I'm not saying they should beg Avid to let them be part of his "reign"..

But they wouldn't say no either.

raspago:

Like it or not, in the high market, Avid is still the king.

That would be real news to Quantel and Discrete. ;-)



.- They already know that.

They're great though, but they don't get close to Avid's userbase.

Both Avid and RED will catch up with each other.

And is gonna be really good and fast, as it is with P2 and XDCAM.

So will be Discreet and Quantel.

Red knows they all have to be part of the game.


 

raspago:

And in the RUSH department (news and the likes) Avid will be king even longer.

That will depend upon the success of FC server.



.- FCP is slow and clumsy natively, with or without server. But that's a tired story I don't want to get into again.

Really.



 

raspago:

People can yell, disagree, feel offended but that's the undisputable truth

At least for now.

I just disputed you, and I'm not yelling. It would appear that I'm looking at this with a bit more of an open mind than you are at this point. You obviously feel you have a lot to defend here. I don't.

.- So you are suggesting that AVID will never get in the game? 

Who's being close minded?

I'm not defending anything.

Facts needs no defense.



Regards.

.- I think it's too early to conclude something about Red and Avid.

A this point, we can only speculate.

I'm sure at least 98% of this forum (including me) hasn't even had a Red Camera on their hands.

TCurren:

Sorry about that, looking back I see there was no mention of 4K. I thought there was. If you are going to work at 1080P, here is the cheap and easy solution. You take your Red files into FCP at 1080. This is done by exporting a QT REF file from RedCine which will play in FCP with the Red codec. Then you spit those out to HDCAMSR and work wherever you want. If you want to do 2K, you can work in FCP via the Kona 2K wrapper utiltity. Then I suppose you could send that to Color. (There's something to test). Or spit out a rendered sequence from FCP, convert back to 2K sequence via Kona utility, then take that to the finishing program of your choice. Or, work in FCP with a low res version of the files that you spit out from RedCine or Red Alert, for your offline, and conform the RED files in Scratch which supports them natively. Or spit out QT files, rename in Avid to identify the source, and fight with reconforming later. At this point in the game, FCP is the way the way to handle RED offline. We'll see if and when Avid gets in the game.

Would be a great workflow option but I don't touch the Mac OS.

I'll be laying my hands on a RED next week I hope. Not to do anything useful with, but I'll fondle it at least.

At the moment Avid's hands are tied - Redcode is a propietary codec, and at the moment RED are only giving it to Apple and Assimilate. Avid just has to wait.

With Redcine and Redalert supporting Quicktime, it should be (and is) possible to get RED footage into Avid as DNxHD, but it requires some hoops, and some jumping.

Avid is the #1 editorial tool in Hollywood, no disputing that, but others (Apple especially) are really catching up, and things like support for RED are helping that. It's going to be a little while before RED catches on for the big boys, but it seems likely based on what it can do - and when that happens Avid had better be there, because they will go with whatever works, even if that means rebuilding all the edit facilities.

In this case there's nothing really that Avid can do, but once they get their hands on the codec they'd better move quick smart so they stay in the race on that front.

We've just invested in an FCP suite, and the ability to work with RED definately was a big 'Pro' in the decision.