Latest post Thu, Jan 23 2020 7:57 AM by Job ter Burg. 9 replies.
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  • Fri, Jan 17 2020 5:29 PM

    • Krishius
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    AAF for sound mix from seq. with synced subclips - audio metadata lost

    Hello!

     

    What might be the reason for Media Composer to lose all audio metadata when exporting audio-only AAF files from a sequence that has been edited using synced subclips?

     

    Here's how I usually work:

    FIrst, original audio media from Sound Devices recorder is imported in Media Composer project via generic old-school import. I have also tried linking the audio files and consolidating them into project and there doesn't seem to be any difference nowadays (I remember there used to be many MC versions ago, but not anymore). When brought into MC project, regardless of input method all recorder metadata shows up in Avid bin.

    Then everything is being synced to video clips via AutoSync (sometimes manually with clapper, usually automatically with timecode) and only the recorded guide/mix audio track from recorder is chosen to be added to synced subclips (so that editor does not have to deal with all iso tracks during editng process). After creation of subclips, they seem to have the same audio metadata as the original master clips (at least I see everything in Avid bin).

     

    Here's where the problem starts:

    After editing is done, I'm exporting AAF file for sound mix (mix usually is done in Pro Tools). In Pro Tools sound mixer is trying to perform so called "Field Recorder Workflow" where he tries to link all iso tracks (from original sound recorder Wave files) back to used timeline clips with help of metadata from guide track, but he cannot do it because no recorder metadata is present in AAF.

    I've tried several AAF export methods: all used audio media is being consolidated in their full durations; all used audio is trimmed with handles; all audio media is embedded in AAF; all audio media is placed in a separate folder. In all combinations AAF seems to lose all audio metadata (except for the source timecodes). At least Pro Tools is not seeing anything.

    What is strange - when I have exported AAF with trimmed media from Media Composer, all the pile of newly generated audio clips that have showed up in the Avid bin (clip names ending with ".new") have all metadata visible in Avid bin. So I assume all the metadata is there but for some reason this metadata is simply not being transfered to the resulting AAF file.

     

    My workaround usually is doing a semi-manual relinking of the edit sequence audio tracks to original imported unsynced audio master clips (the same ones used for creating synced subclips) and this sometimes take a lot of time and has be checked everytime, since sometimes Avid relinks to wrong clips that have the same timecodes (i.e. audio clips recorded at the same time of day in another shooting day).

    After I have relinked everything to master audio clips, AAF exported from this new & relinked sequence has all metadata preserved in it, and the Field Recorder Workflow can be performed seamlessly in Pro Tools. And it doesn't even matter what method has been used for AAF export in this case - consolidating full durations, consoldidating with trimming, embedding audio media in AAF or audio media placed in a separate folder - it works always and all metadata is preserved.

     

    I believe that there must be something I'm doing wrong but I cannot figure out what exactly. All synced subclips seem to carry all audio metadata in Media Composer and in my understanding exporting an AAF file directly from a sequence that has been edited using subclips should work. Otherwise it just seems absurd to me that after cut is finished with subclips, relinking to master clips must be done before bringing it to audio mix.

    This has been tested in many versions of Media Composer (starting from, I guess, v8.x), in many versions of Pro Tools (starting from v10.x) and with audio recordings from several recorders (mainly different models of Sound Devices) and it has always been the same every time with any combination or Media Composer versions, Pro Tools versions and sound recorder models.

     

    What am I doing wrong?

     

    Thanks!

  • Fri, Jan 17 2020 5:50 PM In reply to

    • morsey
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    Re: AAF for sound mix from seq. with synced subclips - audio metadata lost

    Your workflow should work and not out of the ordinary, so the Field Record Workflow in Pro Tools should work.

     

    Try a "link to" Audio AAF and give them the same source WAV's files you have (or double check they have that data). They need to link to the source not the AAF generated media.

  • Fri, Jan 17 2020 5:50 PM In reply to

    • morsey
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    Re: AAF for sound mix from seq. with synced subclips - audio metadata lost

  • Fri, Jan 17 2020 11:28 PM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: AAF for sound mix from seq. with synced subclips - audio metadata lost

    Wild guess here.

    Is the material in question from Group clips?  If so try Commit Multicam before making the AAF.

    Good luck,

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.11.0 but playing w 2018.12.6|OS 10.14.x - iMac 2017 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core... [view my complete system specs]

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  • Sat, Jan 18 2020 12:17 AM In reply to

    • Krishius
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    Re: AAF for sound mix from seq. with synced subclips - audio metadata lost

    I actually had already tried commiting multicam edits, hoping that maybe this feature is somehow connected not only to group clips but also subclips, but unfortunately it didn't help in any way.

    No actual group clips have been used in any of projects I had to bring to Pro Tools so far.

    Thanks for answering!

  • Sat, Jan 18 2020 2:47 PM In reply to

    • Cutyes
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    Re: AAF for sound mix from seq. with synced subclips - audio metadata lost

    Have you ever received and used .ALE files for the import of the original sound?

    Maybe check out this thread (old but still alive in 2019):

    https://community.avid.com/forums/p/121670/851146.aspx

     

     

  • Sat, Jan 18 2020 9:29 PM In reply to

    • Krishius
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Wed, Oct 10 2007
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    Re: AAF for sound mix from seq. with synced subclips - audio metadata lost

    I have not received ALE files from sound recordists so far. Just checked all raw audio recording files from different projects I have fast access to, and none of offloaded Sound Devices recorder cards contain ALE or anything like that in their original file/folder structure.

     

    But am I right that normally subclips should pass over the metadata when AAF is exported? Or am I trying to achieve something that is technically not designed to work like that at all?

     

    What is your workflow for situations where you have to cut synced subcips with a single guide audio mix-track and get the edited sequence to Pro Tools afterwards, where sound guys connect all remaining iso tracks to the cut? I want to believe that I am not the only one who is managing the editing workflow for films in such manner (?)

  • Sun, Jan 19 2020 12:24 PM In reply to

    Re: AAF for sound mix from seq. with synced subclips - audio metadata lost

    I do this all the time. I do make my Assistant import all tracks. In PT they should then even be able to access all other tracks that were imported into MC. Usually, they will use my AAF to relink to the original WAVs, though. Or they use third party tools.

    If the metadata is in MC, there is metadata. The problem is likely on the PT side. They need to experiment with the matching criteria. subclips/syncclips vs master clips should not be a problem. The only thing I do is never consolidate or embed. I use "link to media", and give them all of my audio mediafiles.

    If you can't get it to work, use tools like Conformalizer or EdiLoad.

    ALE's from the production sound mixer will only help you get metadata inside Avid bins. Pro Tools is quite deaf to metadata, it pretty much only reads what is baked into the actual mediafile.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Jan 22 2020 8:16 AM In reply to

    • derDoyle
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    Re: AAF for sound mix from seq. with synced subclips - audio metadata lost

    Copy All to folder is the right way for PT. Consolidate is the problem, in this process metadata for PT get lost.

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  • Thu, Jan 23 2020 7:57 AM In reply to

    Re: AAF for sound mix from seq. with synced subclips - audio metadata lost

    Pretty sure Consolidate does not strip metadata. If anything, PT might not be able to relink elements with different starting timecodes (as MC can). I've always found PT extremely limited in how it manages metadata.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
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