Latest post Mon, May 13 2019 5:09 PM by Steve Swisz. 6 replies.
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  • Wed, May 1 2019 7:44 PM

    • mjordan
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    • Joined on Fri, Oct 28 2011
    • Posts 14
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    Relink 23.98 media to sequence cut in 24

    There is a project shot in 24fps.  Editorial cut with 24fps dailies (Avid MXFs) in a 24fps Avid project.

    Now, I have the same dailies, but they were converted through our transcoder to 23.98 Avid MXF.  The frame conversion was done "properly," keeping all frames so timecode matches between 23.98 and 24 flavors.

    If Editorial hands me their Avid bin, I am having trouble relinking to my 23.98 dailies properly.

    If I open their 24fps bin in my 23.98 project, and try to open their sequence, Avid will create a new 23.98 version of the sequence.  However, when it does that, it shifts the in and out timecodes in around a little in the new sequence, so the timecode ins and outs are sometimes 1-2 frames off.  So now when I relink to my 23.98 dailies, it is not frame accurate.

    I believe Avid is converting the sequence to 23.98 incorrectly (or at least "not traditionally"); attempting to match the duration of the original piece by truncating frames, rather than maintaining the correct timecodes.

    Anyone know how to fix this?

    My current workaround is to open their 24p bin in a 24p project on my side, output an EDL, and bring that EDL in to a 23.98 project so that the timecodes remain the same.  Then it's fine.  But that's a lot of steps and I'm trying to avoid EDLs.

    Also: As far as editorial working with 24 media and me working in 23.98 media, I have no choice. That's just the way our facility does things.

  • Sat, May 4 2019 7:42 PM In reply to

    • jef
    • Top 50 Contributor
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    Re: Relink 23.98 media to sequence cut in 24

    mjordan:

    Also: As far as editorial working with 24 media and me working in 23.98 media, I have no choice. That's just the way our facility does things.

    I am just wondering WHY your facility does things this way.  Not to cast blame, but rather to think if there is a solution for you.

    Jef

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  • Thu, May 9 2019 10:46 PM In reply to

    • Steve Swisz
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    • Joined on Wed, Jan 3 2018
    • Universal City
    • Posts 11
    • Points 115

    Re: Relink 23.98 media to sequence cut in 24

    Hey there MJordan.... 

    We are having the same issue, we cut and convert all Source media to 23.98 becuase we creatively cut and Finish everything at 23.98.

    When we receive Featrue Tunrovers or Cuts from outside Vendors who do not follow the same guidlines we are left with the exact same issue.

    Our Avid Tech/Engineer is currently in talks about this with AVID...Sad

    I would like to add that when I update the 24 frm Seq to 23.98 the offline SOURCE CLIP in the time line will call a start at time of 01:57:00:11 but when I relink that clip along with all the others it will relink and be slipped by 1 frame. 01:57:00:10.

    Only work around is to create an EDL which is not an option I need to keep GROUP EDITS and everything else from Feature Editorial.

    Thanks All!

     

    PC and MAC Current Version 2019 - 8.9.4.47330 Storage - FACILIS and XSAN [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, May 12 2019 4:33 AM In reply to

    • mjordan
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    • Joined on Fri, Oct 28 2011
    • Posts 14
    • Points 210

    Re: Relink 23.98 media to sequence cut in 24

    Yep, sounds like we have the same issue for sure.  You would think Avid would know enough to produce a 23.98 timeline with the same timecode ins and outs as the 24p version, but instead I think it's trimming frames to preserve duration.

    There's another guy I'm working with at my facility who is far smarter than I am, so I'll let you know if he finds anything.

  • Sun, May 12 2019 9:24 PM In reply to

    Re: Relink 23.98 media to sequence cut in 24

    23.976 and 24.00 are NOT exactly the same. 

    That is like saying 30fps is the same as 29.97

    if you convert 24.00 to 23.976, the TC will eventually shift and if retain all frames, the overall duration between the two will be different. 

    Also, the audio will be off. 

    MC 2019.9, Windows 10, ASROCK X99M, Intel 5930K, Zotac RTX 2070 Super, 32GB RAM, Transcend 512GB M.2 SSD & Dell UP2718Q. MBP 2012 Thunderbolt, OSX... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, May 13 2019 5:09 PM In reply to

    • Steve Swisz
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, Jan 3 2018
    • Universal City
    • Posts 11
    • Points 115

    Re: Relink 23.98 media to sequence cut in 24

    Hey Dom,

    Not arguing or saying that 24 and 23.98 are the same. I have Metdata ((TimeCode)) which is calling for a specific Time. When I update the Seq from 24 ro 23.98 that TC is calling for the correct time. When the relink happens to 23.98 media everything shifts down 1 frame in the Seq.

    This the work around / "Trick" I am looking for, also my durations are the same as far as "Dailies" clips go. I am able to merge ALE onto both sets of media.

    Guess we will look into breaking into the AAF to change the FPS from 24 to 23.98, create a new AAF from that so we can relink to 23.98 correctly.

    Audio part I am aware of slipping, but it is not a concern since Audio will not be passed onto or used finishing.

     

    PC and MAC Current Version 2019 - 8.9.4.47330 Storage - FACILIS and XSAN [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, May 13 2019 5:46 PM In reply to

    • mjordan
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Fri, Oct 28 2011
    • Posts 14
    • Points 210

    Re: Relink 23.98 media to sequence cut in 24

    I'm not saying 23.976 and 24 are exactly the same in all respects.  I am, however, saying 23.976 and 24 have exactly the same timecode.

    If I have a TC-IN at 01:00:00:00 and a TC-OUT at 01:00:30:00, that should give me identical frames between 24 and 23.98 media.  Yes, 23.98 will playback 1% slower and you need a 23.98 audio mix.  That's how it has always been.

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