Latest post Fri, Feb 8 2019 7:10 PM by cls105. 6 replies.
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  • Fri, Feb 8 2019 2:09 PM

    • Ssnygg
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    Video looks different inside Avid (a bit washed out)

    I'm doing color correction inside Avid.  I adjust the contrast and saturation and it looks great inside Avid.  When I export it and play it with Quicktime, the video looks too contrasty.  If I upload it to Vimeo, it looks too contrasty.  If I reimport it back into AVID, the video looks fine again.  So, it would appear that there is something inside AVID that makes the video look different than it actually is (a bit washed out).   Is there a setting for this?  I am running Compser 2018.3 on a PC.   By the way, I noticed this issue in years past more severely on MAC computers where the video would look great in Final Cut but then look washed out on the same computer in Avid.  I figured it was Apple trying to screw with people trying to make them not use Avid.

    Ideas?

    I have several systems. 1-Media Composer ver 7 1-Media Composer 8.8.4 1-mac Express 2.2 AB/VB Targa set up The computers I use include: 1-Intel core i7... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Feb 8 2019 2:21 PM In reply to

    Re: Video looks different inside Avid (a bit washed out)

    You may want to read up on the different luminance levels in (broadcast) video (and MC) and computer displays.

    http://www.jobterburg.nl/Publications/601_709_RGB.pdf

    Inside MC, you should normally work to legal video levels, then export or encode to the desired format.

    You should also know that inside Media Composer, if you right-click on the source or record monitor, you can set a Display Color Space that allows you to see broadcast video corrected for display on your full range computer monitors.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Feb 8 2019 4:45 PM In reply to

    • Ssnygg
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    Re: Video looks different inside Avid (a bit washed out)

    So I just read the article you sent.  Thank you.  And I never knew about the right click display thing.  So I'm not using any client monitors, just the single computer monitor.  The output from avid in 709 playing in Quicktime looks contrastier than the source record window set to 709. 

    I noticed in the right click display options you just mentioned, that it has the option for "709" or "709 full range".  What is the difference?  The export, by the way, is closer to the "709 full range", but is still contrastier.

    Is there a way to show "709 full range" when you blow up to full screen?

     

    Thanks.

    I have several systems. 1-Media Composer ver 7 1-Media Composer 8.8.4 1-mac Express 2.2 AB/VB Targa set up The computers I use include: 1-Intel core i7... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Feb 8 2019 6:36 PM In reply to

    • Ssnygg
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    Re: Video looks different inside Avid (a bit washed out)

    I just discovered I can change full screen in settings>full screen playback  but I'd love to know the answers to the other questions about the difference between 709 and 709 full range.  From reading other forum posts, it seems like 709 full range is closer to what you'd see on boradcast, but I am cutting this project to be seen on vimeo and other streaming platforms like Netflix and iTunes.  But the output as played on Quicktime 7 is contrastier than even that.  So... Does Quicktime player increase the contrast?  Does going from that version to h.237 or whatever vimeo does increase the contrast?

    I have several systems. 1-Media Composer ver 7 1-Media Composer 8.8.4 1-mac Express 2.2 AB/VB Targa set up The computers I use include: 1-Intel core i7... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Feb 8 2019 6:38 PM In reply to

    Re: Video looks different inside Avid (a bit washed out)

    Ssnygg:
    The output from avid in 709 playing in Quicktime looks contrastier than the source record window set to 709. 

    Of course. As I stated earlier, the Source and Records monitors, by default, are set to the Project's color space, which in MC is always Rec 709 legal. This means that, if your computer monitor is calibrated to sRGB (as they usually are) black will look grey, and whites are never full bright white. You can easily tell this by creating a title or by parking on filler/black.

    Ssnygg:
    the option for "709" or "709 full range".  What is the difference?
    If you keep it set to Rec709, you basically tell MC to assume your display is calibrated to Rec709-legal (16-235 @8bit) -- which it would usually NOT be (considering most if not all computer displays are calibrated to sRGB full range levels). With your S/R color space set to 709, using a computer monitor, black will look greyer than black, white will not be full bright white. You can color correct until the blacks and whites LOOK like true blacks and whites, but then you will have created illegal levels, which will cause issues upon export.

    If you set it to Rec709 Full Range, you are telling MC that your display is calibrated to Rec709 with Full Range levels (0-255 @8bit), and MC will remap the luminance levels so that your source's 16 (legal black) is displayed as 0 on the computer monitor (full black) and your source's 235 (legal white) is displayed as 255 on the computer monitor.

    If you set it to to sRGB, you are telling MC that your display is calibrated to sRGB (which has full range levels), and MC will not only remap the luminance levels (as it does when set to Rec709 Full Range), but also correct for the gamma difference between Rec709 and sRGB.

    Is there a way to show "709 full range" when you blow up to full screen?

    In your Settings (CTRL-9, settings tab), there are Full Screen Display Settings, which allow you to set the display type, just as it can be set in the Source and Record monitors.

    As a rule ot thumb, when working on computer monitors, you would normally set them to sRGB or Rec 709 Full Range.

     

    Also, when working with color in MC, learn how to use the Y Waveform and RGB Parade Monitors in the Color Correction mode, as those will clearly tell you how your levels are doing.

     

    Finally, you need to beware how you export. If you export Op1A MXF or Quicktime Same As Source, you have some control over the export levels. When you use Custom settings in QT Export, you are using the QT engine and the QT codecs, and those may cause all kinds of unwanted gamma changes on your exports. More a QT issue than an MC issue.

    I tend to work in legal levels, export in legal levels (QT Same As Source), then have Handbrake turn it into an H264 for Vimeo, and apparently Handbrake correctly flags the color space / lumincance range, and Vimeo shows everyting as expected.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Feb 8 2019 7:08 PM In reply to

    • Ssnygg
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Tue, Apr 11 2006
    • Allentown PA
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    Re: Video looks different inside Avid (a bit washed out)

    Thank you.  Very well explained.  :)

    I have several systems. 1-Media Composer ver 7 1-Media Composer 8.8.4 1-mac Express 2.2 AB/VB Targa set up The computers I use include: 1-Intel core i7... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Feb 8 2019 7:10 PM In reply to

    • cls105
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    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • los angeles
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    Re: Video looks different inside Avid (a bit washed out)

    I always edit with all displays at full range.

    That way I can see what my clients will see when i upload my rough cuts online.

    (Most of my stuff gets graded by someone else after)

    I don't really see myself viewing in anything else but full range in the future.

    MC 2018.12.1, diy x299 7940x 4.7ghz OC, 1080ti, 128gb ram, w10 pro (1803) DM me on instagram for tech Q's: dvhaime [view my complete system specs]
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