Latest post Thu, Jul 26 2018 7:22 PM by Telegram!. 25 replies.
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  • Fri, Jul 20 2018 7:50 PM

    Independent Resolutions

    Hello,

    With Premiere Pro CC 2018, when you create a new project, each timeline that is created has its own format settings.

    For example:

    Premiere Project File.prproj

    2 timelines - Timeline #1 is 1080i; Timeline #2 is UHD 23.98p

    ------------

    In Avid, you cannot do this. When you create a new project, you are forced immediately to choose your format. So each timeline that you create will always be the exact same format (i.e. 1080i).

    I wonder if Avid can implement independent resolution timelines, where instead of setting the format in the project-level, you set it timeline-level.

    This would be a huge timesaver for me Avid-wise : many times I get media in different formats. I understand that you can avoid this by using Avid's converters.

  • Sat, Jul 21 2018 10:58 AM In reply to

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    Re: Independent Resolutions

    Congratulation to Adobe, they have just caught up with Liquid v7, circa the turn of the century. I'm surprised Avid has not integrated this feature into MC by now, as they have with other features from Liquid. It would illiminate the clumsy practice of unlinking and relinking if implemented properly.

    Asus X58 Sabertooth motherboard, Core i7 920 CPU, Win 7 Pro 64bit, NVIDIA GeForce GT610, 12GB Corsair 3x4GB CMX-12GX3M3A1333C9 ram in triple channel config... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jul 21 2018 12:45 PM In reply to

    • luca.mg
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    Re: Independent Resolutions

    Ten years have past since I first asked for this, please join me here http://community.avid.com/forums/t/59857.aspx we have a bad approximation of resolution indipendence with DNxHR and custom frame size up to a certain size, perhaps within the boundaries of 4kish IIRC, and that might have increased with MC 2018.7, that, AFAIU,  supports bigger formats, but still the management of eterogeneous formats within a given size project is unconvenient to say the least, and despite its name FrameFlex is the most unflexible tool that the perverted mind of an evil programmer might have conceived, ever. And by the way, Premiere has had resolution indipendence for quote a long while, it's not today's news.

    Symphony 2018.9, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Sat, Jul 21 2018 1:32 PM In reply to

    Re: Independent Resolutions

    I have to say I've not found the Avid method to be limited.

    I can changer the project format within the same framerate and export whatever resolution I need as long as the source media is as high or higher than my required output.

    Its not the sequence resolution that matters only the media you create. So if you have a 1080 project format and make media its 1080 (unless you use DNxHR and then its the same resolution as the source) switch to 2160 and you have to recreate the media (unless you used DNxHR media)

    So in Premiere (soory I'm not so familiar with it) if you render up a 1080 sequence to make media and then change that to 2160 I presume you still have to re render the media? or does Premiere have a DNxHR codec? 

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

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  • Sat, Jul 21 2018 4:14 PM In reply to

    • luca.mg
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    Re: Independent Resolutions

    In my world I have to deliver unconventional formats, eg the last delivery was some 14440x1020, it was a video backdrop with left and right wings. To make things easier the last part or the show became a 360 projection. I have had to deal with HD, 2k, 4k, 8k, and 360 footage, all whitin the same non standard project, which I had to downscale for offline editing, and finish in AfterEffects, given the Avid limitations. Now Pat, You have a long tradition in stating exactly the opposite of what I state, whatever I state, if I was in London I would take You to a pub and pay a bunch of pints, I'm pretty sure that this pointless arguing would end and we'll became good friends (if You'll ever happen to be in Roma please get in touch with me and be my guest for a red wine round). If You quit Your long lasting tradition and try to think of non broadcast delivery, different workflows from the ones You are used to, step into my shoes, or those of the OP, and try to deal with a world of very mixed source material and weird delivery formats, I'm quite sure that You will agree that the "Avid method" is very very limited, trust me, or see by Yourself with a test project like the above described one. We're not talking rocket science here, other than the current Premiere, FCX, and God knows what, even dinosaurs like DS, Liquid, and FCP had well implemented resolution indipendence, and let's face it, it's just about time for MC to have it too. 

    No offence intended, looking forward for a new age of peaceful forums relationships, and hopefully for a drink toghether, my best regards, Luca

    Symphony 2018.9, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Sat, Jul 21 2018 5:16 PM In reply to

    Re: Independent Resolutions

    Sorry you feel I make a point of having an opposite view to you.

    I just have the view I have and although it evolves it changes little.

    99% of what I do is Braodcats or feature or web based and that is pretty much covered by the various technical TV formats that Avid supports.

    So for me Avid is a very good fit and I don't need it to be different. Not because I think that is different to you but because its what I need and it suits well.

    As I said Avid always more resolution independance than I need (because I can even create custom project formats not that I ever need to)

    I saw this as more of a request to drop Avids Project format approach for a sequence format approach (sequences do have a format associated with them anyway. Its adopted from the project format they are created in)

    But for me and the Broadcast world it works well to have a project in a paticular format (one that I can change up and down as required) and the idea of dumoing that for Sequence that have a format would potentially open a massive can of worms for less expereinced editors and ingest operators who laready struggle to get it right when in a project set for the format they need.

    This would be a significat major change tio the whole operation and ethos of Media Composer and for the TV & Broadcast world I can't see it would be an advanatage.

    I would have to say that MC probably isn't the tool for you for that sort of work. Not because I'm suggesting the opposiet but because its what I think is true. And always happy to have a beer!

     

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  VET

     

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    Media Composer V8.2 Review Background Render

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  • Sat, Jul 21 2018 7:05 PM In reply to

    • luca.mg
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    Re: Independent Resolutions

    Pat I do not do funny gigs only, I also cut documentary, broadcast, features, commercials, music videos, docudrama, corporate, You name it. I strongly believe that the top NLE in the market should be this flexible to cut everything including the kitchen sink. And I as an editor do not want to switch software according to the product I'm working at, I'm MC fluent and want to use my favourite NLE for whatever it is my job. Do You mean that MC is not a full editor, but a film and broadcast editor only? And that the cumbersome FrameFlex is a good tool just because is good enough for Your personal needs? Fair enough. But this arrogant Avid's attitude "maybe MC is not the right tool for You" toward people asking for better and more is shrinking the user base, killing the Company. Avid should meet customer's expectations to remain in business. A better product means more profits, and more resources to keep improving.

    Going back to the OP, I take it that to be able to switch between different  resolution timelines in the same project full resolution indipendence is required, as well as tabbed timeline, another long waited for feature (not to mention better handling of mixed frame rate footage). As for MC becoming too difficult to use if it had too many features, do You assume that the average MC user is a moron? I do not see so many Premiere users confused by resolution indipendence and being able to switch between different resolution sequences, are they smarter than the Avid users?

    Prosecco tonight, I feel like having bubbles.

    Symphony 2018.9, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Sun, Jul 22 2018 2:31 PM In reply to

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    Re: Independent Resolutions

    If you had tried the Liquid workflow I think you would have liked it. It was not that different or in no way pevented you from working as you do now with an over all project format, where each new sequence is created at the project format. The only real difference was that each sequence could have it's resolution and frame size set independently of the main project setting. So let's say in your edit world, all the media comes to you in standard 1080p. Let's also say you are on a low performance machine. You could link to all your 1080p footage, set your sequence to a very low resolution format, with background rendering on and edit in the low resolution. Background rebdering would create low resolution files that require far less disc space and computer horse power to edit. Then when you are happy with your sequence edit, simply change the sequence setting back to the project settings and the completed sequence would background render at the project settings or whatever resolution size you choose. No unlinking\relinking to proxy formats etc

     

    If you had the odd non standard clip it could also be edited inside the standard settings project, in it's own sequence before maybe being added to a main sequence. No creating a separate project at the non standard settings. Of course there would be nothing stopping you from working exactly the way you do now. but in some instances, in your case maybe not so often as others, you would be wasting time, disc space and cpu cycles.

    I'm surprised Avid didn't take this feature from Liquid, I can only assume that there is something in the MC code that makes adding it very difficult.

     

     

    Asus X58 Sabertooth motherboard, Core i7 920 CPU, Win 7 Pro 64bit, NVIDIA GeForce GT610, 12GB Corsair 3x4GB CMX-12GX3M3A1333C9 ram in triple channel config... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jul 23 2018 2:38 AM In reply to

    • luca.mg
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    Re: Independent Resolutions

    In the early days the lack of resolution indipendence was probably due to the playback engine and the Avid codecs. With DNxHR the codec shouldn't be a problem anymore, up to a certain frame size, no way DNxHR can be any size You'd like; as for the playback engine Avid only knows. The idea of FrameFlex is a step in the right direction, but the feature as it is now is almost unusable; as written before, despite its name it's very unflexible. Not to mention the very poor MC performance with linked clips. MC should be able to import footage at its own resolution within projects of different resolution, kind of what it already does when importing smaller stuff into a bigger project (but with no Black edges!), if it only it could also import bigger stuff at its own resolution in smaller projects it would be halfway through. Overcoming the limitations of FrameFlex is another story, maybe restarting from scratch would be easier, but Avid has a long story of good ideas badly implemented and never fixed nor improved. I hate to admit this, but if MC doesn't step into the 21st century we all will have to drop it in favour of a 21st century aware NLE.

    Symphony 2018.9, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Mon, Jul 23 2018 10:40 AM In reply to

    Re: Independent Resolutions

    Sorry I'll have to duck out of thios topic.

    I've used MC for many years and watched the progression and development. For me and my clients its better than its ever been. Frameflex isn't perfect but mnay folks use it and use it fine and its better than what we had before it.

    Tabbed timelines acak FCP7 never saw the point of. I have a sequence bin and load up which ever I need and I also have the record monitor drop down. I did back in the FCP7 days accidently have the wrong tab selected and make changes to the wrong sequence! 

    I'm now off for 3 weeks mountian climbing so will have limited forum access.

    I'd suggest putting feature requests in the appropriate forum as they are more likely to be seen there.

    Good luck.

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  VET

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet.co.uk | W www.vet.co.uk |


    Media Composer V8.2 Review Background Render

    -

    Follow me on Twitter Pat_H_VET

  • Tue, Jul 24 2018 4:42 AM In reply to

    • luca.mg
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    Re: Independent Resolutions

    Pat Horridge:

    I've used MC for many years and watched the progression and development. For me and my clients its better than its ever been. Frameflex isn't perfect but mnay folks use it and use it fine and its better than what we had before it.

    That does not mean that the tool is as good as It should and could be, or that users shouldn't ask for improvements, if it's fit for You and some others that does not mean that it has to be fit for everyone, that's kind of rough.

    I've already posted the link to the relevant features request thread above.

    Have a nice holiday Pat!

    Symphony 2018.9, BM Intensity Pro 4k, Windows 10, i7-5930K, 32 GB ram, Quadro K620 [view my complete system specs]

    peace luca

  • Tue, Jul 24 2018 10:41 AM In reply to

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    Re: Independent Resolutions

    There are a few major workflows that are lengthened and made more complicated simply by the lack of sequence format indipendence. Whether it's worth a major rewrite, which may take many versions to get reliable and may not be compatable with previous versions, is the million dollar question.

    Asus X58 Sabertooth motherboard, Core i7 920 CPU, Win 7 Pro 64bit, NVIDIA GeForce GT610, 12GB Corsair 3x4GB CMX-12GX3M3A1333C9 ram in triple channel config... [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jul 24 2018 3:11 PM In reply to

    Re: Independent Resolutions

    Wow I never imagined i'd get so many excellent responses to my original post. Thanks guys to all of your input! :)

  • Tue, Jul 24 2018 4:51 PM In reply to

    Re: Independent Resolutions

    v-block:

    There are a few major workflows that are lengthened and made more complicated simply by the lack of sequence format indipendence. 

    I’m honestly curious about those three major things.... can you elaborate?

     

     

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  • Wed, Jul 25 2018 1:42 AM In reply to

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    Re: Independent Resolutions

    Well one or two have already been mentioned. Linking to high resolution files can for most people who don't have bleeding edge hardware, require the use of lower resolution proxy files and the need to link, unlink, relink (not always successfully according to fairly regular posts to this forum). This would be no longer necessary.

     

    Creating separate projects for different formats and editing them before bringing them into the main project (not really necessary in recent versions but still regularly advised on these forums). This would be no longer necessary.

     

    Processing all the weird and wonderful formats around today, in and back out the same, if necessary, would be straight forward.

     

    I don't know how many people would need or use such a feature but maybe someone could think of more uses, for what it's worth.

     

     

    Asus X58 Sabertooth motherboard, Core i7 920 CPU, Win 7 Pro 64bit, NVIDIA GeForce GT610, 12GB Corsair 3x4GB CMX-12GX3M3A1333C9 ram in triple channel config... [view my complete system specs]
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