Latest post Fri, Nov 24 2017 3:52 AM by jef. 14 replies.
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  • Tue, Nov 14 2017 2:32 PM

    Enable Mask Margins, compromises 10bit image quality

    Using MC 8.8.5

    My media is DNx175X

    When I make an export using same as source and use "Enable Mask Margins", the export comes out as if it has been pushed through an 8bit process and does not retain the image quality of the original.

    Can anyone confirm this bug?

     

    MC 8.8.2 OSX 10.12.3 Quicktime 7.6.6 Nitris DX [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Nov 14 2017 8:27 PM In reply to

    • Jason Sedmak
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    Re: Enable Mask Margins, compromises 10bit image quality

    Not on my end, all exports look as they should... obviously, you are making certain the quality setting on the timeline is the quality you want?

     

    Jason

     

    2010 Mac Pro 2.66 GHz 12-core 64GB GTX 980Ti Solid State Boot 8x Fibre to Terrablock Currently running 10.11.6 El Capitan Symphony 8.9.3 [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Nov 17 2017 3:01 PM In reply to

    Re: Enable Mask Margins, compromises 10bit image quality

    Hi Jason.

    Are you on 8.8.5 or later?

    Not sure what you mean about making certain the quality. My timeline is set to full green 10bit. But that does not effect the export quality. I'm using same as source as my output.

    Do you have a good 10bit gradiant to test the result. Obviously you would only see the difference I am talking about on a 10bit external montitor.

    The output file reports as 175X but the image has definately been quantized.

    MC 8.8.2 OSX 10.12.3 Quicktime 7.6.6 Nitris DX [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Nov 17 2017 9:43 PM In reply to

    • Jason Sedmak
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    Re: Enable Mask Margins, compromises 10bit image quality

    You're right that the Timeline Video Quality setting wouldn't affect an export but that's assuming if you had something needing a render, you had that switch set to the full green 10-bit, otherwise it would of course look low-res.

     

    I'm using an older Dreamcolor HP LP2480zx which is supposed to be a 10-bit monitor.

     

    I'm running MC 8.9.2 w/Symphony option on a MacPro running El Capitan.  I'm using a BlackMagic Decklink 4k card but monitoring HD-SDI to the dreamcolor.

     

    When I bounce between my SAS export (with Mask Margins enabled) re-linked to the source side, and my original timeline (with a gradient ramp I created in AE 16-bit) I see no difference.  I'm using DNX 175x for the import of the ramp, and as a codec for the export.

     

    Maybe you wanna send me your ramp file or something?

    2010 Mac Pro 2.66 GHz 12-core 64GB GTX 980Ti Solid State Boot 8x Fibre to Terrablock Currently running 10.11.6 El Capitan Symphony 8.9.3 [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Nov 17 2017 10:41 PM In reply to

    • Jason Sedmak
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    Re: Enable Mask Margins, compromises 10bit image quality

    I even rendered out a 32-bit float (that I brought in to AVID 10-bit DNx175X) and exported that... again, looks fine.  Can I send you a 5-frame test?  Also, just double-checking, when you are seeing the 'quantizing,' how are you looking at that?  Through QT?  Through your AVID?  Through something else?

    2010 Mac Pro 2.66 GHz 12-core 64GB GTX 980Ti Solid State Boot 8x Fibre to Terrablock Currently running 10.11.6 El Capitan Symphony 8.9.3 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Nov 20 2017 1:23 PM In reply to

    Re: Enable Mask Margins, compromises 10bit image quality

    I'm doing everything on a10bit monitor through Artist IO.

    I export SAS once with mask margins on and once with them off.

    I import both files back in and cut them on tracks 2 and 3 of the original timeline. And I can visually see the difference between the nomask and mask. Maybe it's an exageration to say 8-bit quantizing, but you know how grads can show up every slight imperfection.

    On further testing I actually see that complexity of the image has an impact also.  A pure grad does not display it but my image is footage with a natural grad to the sky.

    I guess that 175X is not all that perfect. I just thought that simplifying an image by adding a mask would never result in quality loss but it does in certain circumstance.

     

     

     

    MC 8.8.2 OSX 10.12.3 Quicktime 7.6.6 Nitris DX [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Nov 20 2017 4:37 PM In reply to

    Re: Enable Mask Margins, compromises 10bit image quality

    I'd expect adding a mask to improve quality. Your content does then contain less picture info as the mask is easy to compress.

    Necer been happy that x resolutions are the same datarate as non x. So for 10 bit you are using the same datarate as 8 bit but have 20% more bits to compress. The implication is dnx17x is more compressed than dnx175

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

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  • Mon, Nov 20 2017 6:28 PM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: Enable Mask Margins, compromises 10bit image quality

    James@Seamless:

    I import both files back in and .....

    Just checking.  When you say "import back in, exactly HOW are bringing it back?  Classic import or Link?

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC 8.5.3 / 8.9.4 | OS 10.11.x - various MacPro Towers - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown" QT 10.0... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Mon, Nov 20 2017 10:20 PM In reply to

    Re: Enable Mask Margins, compromises 10bit image quality

    jef:

    James@Seamless:

    I import both files back in and .....

    Just checking.  When you say "import back in, exactly HOW are bringing it back?  Classic import or Link?

    Jef

    Its such a shame that folks still refer to import often actually as ingest.

    I don't think half dropping the term AMA helped.

    AMA link or import is a clear choice. But we need people to understand why they are so different.

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  VET

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet.co.uk | W www.vet.co.uk |


    Media Composer V8.2 Review Background Render

    -

    Follow me on Twitter Pat_H_VET

  • Tue, Nov 21 2017 6:19 PM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: Enable Mask Margins, compromises 10bit image quality

    Pat Horridge:

    jef:

    James@Seamless:

    I import both files back in and .....

    Just checking.  When you say "import back in, exactly HOW are bringing it back?  Classic import or Link?

    Jef

    Its such a shame that folks still refer to import often actually as ingest.

    I don't think half dropping the term AMA helped.

    AMA link or import is a clear choice. But we need people to understand why they are so different.

    And that is why I suggested an Avid managed FAQ.  Good people on the list keep answering the same questions / problems over and over.

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC 8.5.3 / 8.9.4 | OS 10.11.x - various MacPro Towers - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown" QT 10.0... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Tue, Nov 21 2017 8:33 PM In reply to

    • Marianna
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    Re: Enable Mask Margins, compromises 10bit image quality

    jef:

    And that is why I suggested an Avid managed FAQ.  Good people on the list keep answering the same questions / problems over and over.

    Jef

    Jef

    Agree and possibly can do this in my spare time :)

    Marianna

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  • Thu, Nov 23 2017 2:25 PM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: Enable Mask Margins, compromises 10bit image quality

    Marianna:

    jef:

    And that is why I suggested an Avid managed FAQ.  Good people on the list keep answering the same questions / problems over and over.

    Jef

    Jef

    Agree and possibly can do this in my spare time :)

    Marianna

    Funny. (said with ironic smile).  I would think your talented Moderaters could help (no irony here).

    You lead.  Your troops will follow. 

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC 8.5.3 / 8.9.4 | OS 10.11.x - various MacPro Towers - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown" QT 10.0... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Thu, Nov 23 2017 10:12 PM In reply to

    • Susi
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    Re: Enable Mask Margins, compromises 10bit image quality

    I love this forum. Just sayin'...

    Media Composer 8.6.4 on 15" mid-2012 Macbook Pro (OSX10.11.6) 2.7GHz Intel, 8GB RAM Gizmos: CanonXF200; Canon 550D (DSLR); Hero Go-Pro3 and 4; Sony... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Nov 23 2017 11:10 PM In reply to

    Re: Enable Mask Margins, compromises 10bit image quality

    jef:
    Funny. (said with ironic smile).  I would think your talented Moderaters could help (no irony here).

    [ironic gratitude] Golly, thanks Jef. [/ironic gratitude]

    A forum FAQ would be a full-time job. If you think that's an exaggeration, here's a link to the Licensing FAQ, which links to four documents, 13 Knowledge Base articles, and has a glossary of 13 terms before getting to the actual 22 questions in the FAQ, which are divided into 10 sections.

    And even if you limited it so it was the exact combination of comprehensive and useful, you'd still get repetitive questions from people who either skipped it or didn't know it was there in the first place. There are posts in all the introductory sections of each forum asking people to list system specifcations in their posts, but people still post without including them.

    Media Composer 2018.7 w/Symphony/SS/PF options, HP Envy 17t-j100 Quad Edition laptop, Windows 10 Pro, Intel Core i7 2.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, nVidia GeForce GT... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

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  • Fri, Nov 24 2017 3:52 AM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: Enable Mask Margins, compromises 10bit image quality

    camoscato:

    jef:
    Funny. (said with ironic smile).  I would think your talented Moderaters could help (no irony here).

    [ironic gratitude] Golly, thanks Jef. [/ironic gratitude]

    A forum FAQ would be a full-time job. If you think that's an exaggeration, here's a link to the Licensing FAQ, which links to four documents, 13 Knowledge Base articles, and has a glossary of 13 terms before getting to the actual 22 questions in the FAQ, which are divided into 10 sections.

    And even if you limited it so it was the exact combination of comprehensive and useful, you'd still get repetitive questions from people who either skipped it or didn't know it was there in the first place. There are posts in all the introductory sections of each forum asking people to list system specifcations in their posts, but people still post without including them.

    Points taken.  

    Using your example, I did not even know the Licensing FAQ existed!!  And I know that the Knowledge Base exists (sort of). Looking at the top of the this Forums page, you see Home, Blogs, Videos, Forums, etc.  But not Knowledge Base.

    Seems like a missed oportunity.  Maybe the Knowledge Base is really the FAQ that needs some advertisement love.

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC 8.5.3 / 8.9.4 | OS 10.11.x - various MacPro Towers - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown" QT 10.0... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

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