Latest post Mon, Nov 27 2017 6:32 PM by jef. 22 replies.
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  • Tue, Nov 7 2017 10:54 AM In reply to

    • Mat Linnett
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    Re: Questions RE: "How Avid Media Composer Uses a Computer"

    To further chime in on what Pat says, think of it like this:

    Quadros excel at accurate rendering; Geforce cards are better for fast rendering (think primarily games).

     

    If you're up for a heavy technical explanation from the manufacturer, there's a very in-depth document over here:

    http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro_geforce.html

     

    There's evidence that a lot of Quadro functionality is locked away by drivers and that they can be hacked to enable the features of a Quadro card on Geforce hardware. But if anyone's interested in pursuing that line, obviously be aware that here be dragons. Fiddling with drivers to enable otherwise locked features could result in damage to your hardware.

  • Sat, Nov 11 2017 5:58 PM In reply to

    • Mercer
    • Top 500 Contributor
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    Re: Questions RE: "How Avid Media Composer Uses a Computer"

    It might be worth pointing out that one solution for accurate rendering could be to use the software openGL option within Avid settings for any final rendering, which should produce the best quality regardles of the installed GPU. Although not always convenient it is a viable finishing option for systems with only Geforce consumer cards and should theoretically equal or better the results from a Quadro GPU.

    A very interesting post and I learnt a few things I never knew. I much prefer the scalable balanced load bearing philosophy of Avid's architecture to say that of BM's Da Vinci Resolve, which is heavily dependent on high end GPUs. Resolve is often a struggle on Quad i7 laptops with  only 8GB or even 16GB, whereas Avid is always (at this point) very usable

  • Wed, Nov 15 2017 4:26 PM In reply to

    • mschneider
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    • PostWorks, New York
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    Re: Questions RE: "How Avid Media Composer Uses a Computer"

     

    Hi Chris,

     

    Many thanks for this post. A quesiton about codec handling as it relates to real time playback. Perhaps Shailendra could offer some thoughts or commentary on the following...

    One thing that has been both curious and frustrating comes with how reliable or robust the playback is for a given codec, and how that reliability changes with the codec's container or wrapper.

    Example:

    If I play DNxHD essence wrapped in an OP-Atom MXF container, the playback is typically extremely robust, assuming one has all requisite resources needed to play that codec i.e. storage that supports the bit rate and frame size of the media and a CPU/GPU workstation that can decode it reliably. 

    Yet if you take that same DNxHD essence and re-wrap it into a Quicktime container, playback can suffer sometimes. Same system, same storage, same CPU/GPU, different wrapper/container, and the performance changes. 

    To some degree I know the answer, I think, maybe... and that it may be related to how for something wrapped in a any container that isn't OP-Atom MXF, then Media Composer is making a "call" to some other OS resource - perhaps the native Quicktime libraries in this example - and that "call" takes time, consumes CPU cycles etc. 

    I know that the gradual move to write native library support for non- Op-Atom MXF containers such as Quicktime is an ongoing effort (the so-called generic plugin for Source Browser). I hope these efforts conclude very soon.

    Reliance on OP-Atom MXF workflows lessens every day as workflows become more multi-tool focused, i.e. differing color platforms, online platforms, mastering platforms, and our workflows become more heterogenous in terms of container types and camera sources. Ultimately we urgently need better playback performance for just about anything that isn't OP-Atom MXF. 

    But the question stands: why would same essence, different wrapper make such a notable difference?

     

    Many thanks for your article.

     

    Best,

    Matt Schneider - PostWorks New York

     

    Matthew Schneider Director of Technology PostWorks, New York 100 Avenue of the Americas, 10th Floor New York, NY 10013 212.894.4000 (work) 347.672.4192 (cell) mscheider@postworks.com

  • Wed, Nov 22 2017 12:06 AM In reply to

    • BlueMac
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    Re: Questions RE: "How Avid Media Composer Uses a Computer"

    I am interested in a difinitave "version matrix" on Media Composer for the minimum amount of GPU RAM required to enable GPU rendering (and ACPL).

     

    I know, for example, that MC v8.5.3 requries at least 1.5 gigs of Video RAM to enable GPU rendering.  Somewhere prior it was 1 Gig, but not shure when the higher requirement hit.

    Newer versions require more, and I think it would be a VERY helpful document to lay out by version the minimum RAM requiremtns to enable.  Or even just tell us the version ponts where the amount required change, and by how much.

     

    Thank You,

    Dave Hogan

    Burbank, CA

    Filed under: , , ,
  • Wed, Nov 22 2017 2:40 PM In reply to

    Re: Questions RE: "How Avid Media Composer Uses a Computer"

    Yes - a very interesting post - thanks. And I echo Dave Hogan - a version matrix would be helpful!

    iMac i5 27", 24GB RAM, OS 10.11.6 with Symphony 8.8.5, BlackMagic mini monitor. MacBook Pro, 16GB RAM with OS 10.12.5 (oops) with MC 8.8.4. Very old... [view my complete system specs]

    With best wishes, Roger Shufflebottom

    ACI, Technical Tutor (Editing), Faculty of Media and Communication, Bournemouth University, Dorset, UK

  • Mon, Nov 27 2017 5:29 PM In reply to

    • Mark
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    Re: Questions RE: "How Avid Media Composer Uses a Computer"

    Mat Linnett:

    Quadros excel at accurate rendering; Geforce cards are better for fast rendering (think primarily games).

    ....[T]here's a very in-depth document over here:

    http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro_geforce.html

    Thanks for the link. Intersting reading but it's a 2003 document. It's unclear if the distinctions between product lines 14 years ago remain in effect today. 

    I can't provide a citation but I've read in a couple places Quadros support 10 bit output whereas GeForces only support 8 bits. Don't know if this is or once was but no longer is accurate. Also, doesn't that distinction loose merit if one uses a video I/O card (e.g. AJA, BMD, Bluefish) & external monitor?   

    MC 8.7.2. HP Z400, Xeon W3580, 24GB ECC RAM, BMD Decklink Studio 4K, Desktop Video 10.3, Quadro K4200, 362.13 OS & programs: 600GB 10k, video: 1TB... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Nov 27 2017 5:54 PM In reply to

    Re: Questions RE: "How Avid Media Composer Uses a Computer"

    Hi Matt

     

    I think in part its about building an optimised workflow. Avid has always tried to lever the most from the least and one to do that was to lock down some of the variables. Thats partly why the Avid media is stored in such an "odd" way.

    Its a method that helps with efficient playback. Ans os to does the wrapper and codec in use and I suspect why Avid was slow in making the change to supporting more codecs and more wrappers. The AMA plugin method was a neat solution to that but I don't think its as efficent as the build in media handling. And I can't see it ever being so.

    Some other NLEs don't have a native media method and are able to manage a wider range of wrappers and codecs with a variety of performance levels. But none match Avid with native media.

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Symphony V8.6 / 8.3.1 HP Z400 system [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  VET

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet.co.uk | W www.vet.co.uk |


    Media Composer V8.2 Review Background Render

    -

    Follow me on Twitter Pat_H_VET

  • Mon, Nov 27 2017 6:32 PM In reply to

    • jef
    • Top 50 Contributor
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    Re: Questions RE: "How Avid Media Composer Uses a Computer"

    Mercer:

    It might be worth pointing out that one solution for accurate rendering could be to use the software openGL option within Avid settings for any final rendering, which should produce the best quality regardles of the installed GPU. Although not always convenient it is a viable finishing option for systems with only Geforce consumer cards and should theoretically equal or better the results from a Quadro GPU.

    Interesting idea. But I have always read that there are potential visual differences between a GPU render and a CPU render.  I wonder if that would be an issue in such a situation as this?

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC 8.5.3 / 8.9.4 | OS 10.11.x - various MacPro Towers - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core GTX680 "Harpertown" QT 10.0... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

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