Latest post Tue, Dec 5 2017 5:24 PM by CinéMatica. 96 replies.
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  • Mon, Jan 2 2012 2:59 AM In reply to

    • mrmikster
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Los Angeleez
    • Posts 572
    • Points 6,450
    • Moderator: Avid DS
      Moderator: MetaFuze

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    Ha! Talk about Red Headed Step Child. The DS doesn't even have support for panels yet! Waiting with baited breath with my Color, Transport and Control.

    "There are no rules for the brave". Albert Einstein

  • Mon, Jan 2 2012 9:54 AM In reply to

    • Abie
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Telaviv
    • Posts 268
    • Points 3,310

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    We are also finding it incredibly clunky.

    Move one of the balls and the number in the GUI do not go up and down incrementally and smoothly as you would expect/hope, but rather take what seems like an age to update, as does the piscture. It just 'jumps' to the new value...

    Also considering sending the panels back!

    It really does feel like a Beta release...especially annoying as we have waited a very long time since Avid bought Euphonix AND as the app was rewritten in 6 - would have expected this to be given much more serious thought...

    14xMC 5.03 on HP xw8200/8400/8600 2xSymphony Nitris DX 5.03 and 6.0 HP Z800/6 or 12 Gb ram/nvidia Quadro 4800 [view my complete system specs]

    Abie Edit Studios Telaviv

  • Mon, Jan 2 2012 9:43 PM In reply to

    • KevinW
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Sat, Jun 25 2011
    • Posts 27
    • Points 435

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    Have you had a look at Ch. 20 of the MC 6 editing guide, which deals with the Artist Color control surface and specifically discusses the default controller button settings and how to customize them if desired?

  • Wed, Jan 4 2012 4:51 AM In reply to

    • jfay
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    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 41
    • Points 465

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    KevinW:

    Have you had a look at Ch. 20 of the MC 6 editing guide, which deals with the Artist Color control surface and specifically discusses the default controller button settings and how to customize them if desired?

    I've spent a fair bit of time playing with the customization.  It just isn't setup right now for Symphony.

  • Wed, Jan 4 2012 8:16 AM In reply to

    • Abie
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Telaviv
    • Posts 268
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    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    jfay:

    KevinW:

    Have you had a look at Ch. 20 of the MC 6 editing guide, which deals with the Artist Color control surface and specifically discusses the default controller button settings and how to customize them if desired?

    I've spent a fair bit of time playing with the customization.  It just isn't setup right now for Symphony.

    Agree.

    We have also read it several times and it is just not customisable enough. 

    The excuse that you don't want us to mistakenly press the wrong button seems ridiculous.

    We are professional colorists, and if we were given a tool that was FULLY CUSTOMISABLE we could decide what setup to use. 

    Fair enough, the default set up can account for the possibility that not all users are interested in a complicated setup or seperate controls for Highlights, Midtones, Shaddows - especially MC  as opposed to Symph users, but why remove the possibility altogether, this is patronising and smacks of laziness and amateurism.

    I have never met two editors that work in the same way, and the extent to which you can customise your setup is at the heart of the Avid success story, and the reason we still love it.

    Moreover, we haven't found a way to save diferent user setups for the panel???

    14xMC 5.03 on HP xw8200/8400/8600 2xSymphony Nitris DX 5.03 and 6.0 HP Z800/6 or 12 Gb ram/nvidia Quadro 4800 [view my complete system specs]

    Abie Edit Studios Telaviv

  • Wed, Jan 4 2012 8:30 AM In reply to

    • mjolnarn
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Wed, Feb 8 2006
    • Sweden
    • Posts 13,346
    • Points 159,315

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    Abie:

    Moreover, we haven't found a way to save diferent user setups for the panel???

    A " save to file " and " load from file "  option is something that I have asked for regarding the Artist units ever since the first days of testing them in MC 5,5 , the more users asking for it the higher is the possibilities that we will get it.

    Doesn´t need to be that hard to create, just a small application that communicates with that xml file buried deep into a system folder.

     

    Mac: 17" Macbook Pro i7 2,66 ghz with 8Gb Ram, 500gb 7200rpm drive___ PC_NEW Win10 Pro Mbo Asus Rampage IV Black CPU Ivy Bridge-E 4960X ( = 12 x 4... [view my complete system specs]

    Tomas 

     

  • Wed, Jan 4 2012 8:59 AM In reply to

    • Abie
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Telaviv
    • Posts 268
    • Points 3,310

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    mjolnarn:

    A " save to file " and " load from file "  option is something that I have asked for regarding the Artist units ever since the first days of testing them in MC 5,5 , the more users asking for it the higher is the possibilities that we will get it.

    Doesn´t need to be that hard to create, just a small application that communicates with that xml file buried deep into a system folder.

    Agree wholeheartedly

    We shouldn't need to ask for this - it is so basic and obvious.

    SECONDED!!!!

    14xMC 5.03 on HP xw8200/8400/8600 2xSymphony Nitris DX 5.03 and 6.0 HP Z800/6 or 12 Gb ram/nvidia Quadro 4800 [view my complete system specs]

    Abie Edit Studios Telaviv

  • Wed, Jan 4 2012 11:15 PM In reply to

    • jfay
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 41
    • Points 465

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    Abie:

    mjolnarn:

    A " save to file " and " load from file "  option is something that I have asked for regarding the Artist units ever since the first days of testing them in MC 5,5 , the more users asking for it the higher is the possibilities that we will get it.

    Doesn´t need to be that hard to create, just a small application that communicates with that xml file buried deep into a system folder.

    Agree wholeheartedly

    We shouldn't need to ask for this - it is so basic and obvious.

    SECONDED!!!!

    And here i thought I was just doing it wrong.  This is ridiculous and should have been in there from day one or it should not have been released!

  • Wed, Jan 4 2012 11:17 PM In reply to

    • jfay
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 41
    • Points 465

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    Abie:

    jfay:

    KevinW:

    Have you had a look at Ch. 20 of the MC 6 editing guide, which deals with the Artist Color control surface and specifically discusses the default controller button settings and how to customize them if desired?

    I've spent a fair bit of time playing with the customization.  It just isn't setup right now for Symphony.

    Agree.

    We have also read it several times and it is just not customisable enough. 

    The excuse that you don't want us to mistakenly press the wrong button seems ridiculous.

    We are professional colorists, and if we were given a tool that was FULLY CUSTOMISABLE we could decide what setup to use. 

    Fair enough, the default set up can account for the possibility that not all users are interested in a complicated setup or seperate controls for Highlights, Midtones, Shaddows - especially MC  as opposed to Symph users, but why remove the possibility altogether, this is patronising and smacks of laziness and amateurism.

    I have never met two editors that work in the same way, and the extent to which you can customise your setup is at the heart of the Avid success story, and the reason we still love it.

    Moreover, we haven't found a way to save diferent user setups for the panel???

    My feelings EXACTLY!!

  • Thu, Jan 5 2012 10:06 PM In reply to

    • jfay
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 41
    • Points 465

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    I've been talking to Doug and he seems very interested in the feedback from users that have the Artist Color.  I'm happy that they have people like Doug on here listening and working to implement changes using the feedback.  It seems like the current state of the Artist Color Symphony support is a result of certain desIgn decisions being made that some of us don't agree with.  It seems likely that Avid will implement changes based on our feedback, you just have to decide for yourself if you're okay with waiting for the device to work the way you want it to.

  • Fri, Jan 6 2012 6:26 AM In reply to

    • John Moore
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Feb 3 2006
    • Studio City, CA
    • Posts 392
    • Points 4,440

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    I for one am willing to wait it out and help it grow.  Just to reiterate I would like to see the page buttons up left to the right of the application button used to shift the setup, gamma, gain track wheels to the lows, mids and highs in just that order.  I find my most common use is in the lows then mids and finally highs.  I like the feel of the wheels for these controls and I woluld expect the knob functions that apply to these HSL tabs would also shift too.  I'm not sure if all the tabs have all the knob functions but the parameters should stay on the same knobs for all the tabs including the master.  Also to avoid confusion I think the default when you navigate to the hsl should be to the master parameters but it would be nice if there was a user preference that could alter this behavior so that it would return to the tabe you were last in if you so desire.  Hope this doesn't sound too pedestrian but I'm trying to be clear. 

    Also is there or could there be a forum for the Euphonix Control surfaces specifically?  I don't know if this is necessary  but for now I'll keep posting here.

    Symphony Nitris and Nitris DX 4.x and MCsoft 5.x & 5.5x, MCsoft 6, Artist Color [view my complete system specs]

    John Moore Barking Trout Productions bigfish@pacbell.net

  • Fri, Jan 6 2012 6:36 PM In reply to

    • jfay
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Posts 41
    • Points 465

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    John Moore:

    I for one am willing to wait it out and help it grow.  Just to reiterate I would like to see the page buttons up left to the right of the application button used to shift the setup, gamma, gain track wheels to the lows, mids and highs in just that order.  I find my most common use is in the lows then mids and finally highs.  I like the feel of the wheels for these controls and I woluld expect the knob functions that apply to these HSL tabs would also shift too.  I'm not sure if all the tabs have all the knob functions but the parameters should stay on the same knobs for all the tabs including the master.  Also to avoid confusion I think the default when you navigate to the hsl should be to the master parameters but it would be nice if there was a user preference that could alter this behavior so that it would return to the tabe you were last in if you so desire.  Hope this doesn't sound too pedestrian but I'm trying to be clear. 

    Also is there or could there be a forum for the Euphonix Control surfaces specifically?  I don't know if this is necessary  but for now I'll keep posting here.

    +1Yes

  • Thu, Jan 19 2012 12:33 AM In reply to

    • Arnie328
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Fri, Jul 7 2006
    • Massachusetts
    • Posts 91
    • Points 1,080

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    Just picked up the Control Surface.  I hope to start experimenting with it next week.  Thank you for this disussion.  I too vote for a new forum for the control surfaces.

     

     

    MC 6.0.1 MacBook Pro OS 10.6.8 [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Feb 1 2012 8:22 AM In reply to

    • John Moore
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Feb 3 2006
    • Studio City, CA
    • Posts 392
    • Points 4,440

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    I had a chance to bring my MBP with my artist color panal into a SNDX room on a PC system and the response/sensitivity seemed close but it would seem that the smaller screen on the MBP masks some of the granularity to the controls.  Also having seen the PC symphony feeding an external scope I can see how it's tough to be really precise with the wheels for setup and gain.  Before the panal was a possibility I've grown accustomed to using a numeric keypad to type in values for setup and gain to dial levels in because the sliders have always felt imprecise.  Typing in the numbers I can get thnigs where I want them but now that I've seen the steppy response on and external scope there really needs to be something done under the Avid hood to improve the resolution of the controls.  As has been mentioned in this thread the basic mouse dragging resolution seems to be a bottleneck to the Artist Color.  Having not been a Davinci operator or any of the other heavy iron color correction panals I can see how if I was use to the feel of those consoles the Artist Color would be a let down.  As it is I'm hard pressed to find a venue to use my panal on a symphony because most production companies have not made the commitment to the 64bit retooling of plugins etc...  I look forward to the chance to do so when V6 gets some more traction with my clients but that's going to require some point releases that address some of the bugs people are running into especially the Pan and Zoom incompatibility with pre V6 versions on the PC side.

    Symphony Nitris and Nitris DX 4.x and MCsoft 5.x & 5.5x, MCsoft 6, Artist Color [view my complete system specs]

    John Moore Barking Trout Productions bigfish@pacbell.net

  • Wed, Feb 1 2012 3:03 PM In reply to

    • TCurren
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
    • Burbank, CA
    • Posts 2,993
    • Points 37,720

    Re: Artist Color Control Surface

    I saw this on John's computer yesterday. It explains why some folks like myself said using the panel was too clunky, and some folks like John were happy.

    If I had no experience with a CC panel before, this would be an improvement to just using a mouse to color correct in Symphony. However, using the Artist Color panel with Apple's Color or daVinci yields a much more desirable experience. The panel is fine, the Avid software is NOT up to the task of using a panel.

    When we satrted to analyze what was happening, we could see the base issue with Avid's software. It is not sensitive enough in it's steps. Sort of like camparing 4 bit to 10 bit. You can see this yourself if you look at the numeric readout and move the ball as slowly as you can. It is unable to land between two integers that are widely separated. For example, we could move back and forth between .82 and .42, but not hit anything between. Moving back and forth would reliably hit these two numbers which leads me to believe that the software is only capable of hitting maybe 3 or 4 steps within a given number. 

    All the colorists at our facility have concluded that the panel is just unusable with Avid software at present. :-(

    Symphony Nitris Classic, Symphony DX, MC Soft, MC Adrenaline, MC Adrenaline HD, Unity, Terrablock, ProTools [view my complete system specs]

    Terence Curren Alpha Dogs, Inc.

    Burbank, Ca

    www.alphadogs.tv

    www.digitalservicestation.com

    www.editorslounge.com

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